Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a large Black rat about 7' housed with a 5'yellow and a thick 4 1/2' male corn. No problems here what-so-ever. They are in a 6' long 125 gal tank so there is plenty of room to roam. All come out for feeding but the black rat to keep the feeding kaos minimal and safe.
Ok, with that said, I'm considering introducing a large 8' blue beauty into this group and am wondering, has this Asian species of rat snake ever been known to be caniblistic?
My japanese and mandarins arn't, any other rats that I've had wern't but this is a big snake.
What are you're thoughts?
Mike.

Mike I've never known one to be canabalistic but I think you might be pushing the number or mass of snakes in a 125 by adding a big adult blue in with the other 3 adult ratsnakes.

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Randy Whittington

I agree with colubridman. Not a good idea. That's a nice sized cage, but that's still a lot of snakes in one cage. I regularly house pairs of snakes together, even though most people recommend against it and have never had a problem- in general, I don't have an issue with housing a couple animals of the same/similar species together. but, you're going to be putting something that's from an entirely different part of the world in with North American rat snakes, and I think that could be an issue.

Blue beauties don't like warmth the way rat snakes do. With the obsoletas & corn there you're talking very similar environments, with overlapping in habitat in the wild. But blue beauties are normally kept at room temp, with just a hot spot, correct? I know I keep my Taiwan beauty at room temp with a small heat pad at one end of the cage to help him warm up to digest food, and that's it. . . A lot of beauty snakes get irritable when kept too warm.

And as colubridman said, you're talking about a LOT of snakes in a small area. It's a decent size cage, but I really don't think I'd put 4 snakes in it. Possibly a group of the same species, but definitely not 4 mixed species.

Ronnie Nocera

Thanks guys,I appreciate your input. I actually had the three in a 55 gal. up until very recently. I had bearded dragons in the 125. There were origionally four dragons and that gave them alot of running room over the years but were down to two dragons that are older and spend the majority of time basking. As the black rat had broken the 7' mark I figured it'd be best to let him and his tank mates stretch out. Funny thing is that they seem to prowl in shifts, only one out at a time unless I've started feeding then everyones out.
All my tanks have heat tape but I wasn't planning on using it anymore with the big tank. The rats didn't need the heat that the dragons do and every things been moved into a newly built reptile room which is heated maintaining it in the mid seventies. I only create a warmer spot in one end to give the snake the ability to thermo regulate as needed.
Do the beauties need it cooler or is 72-75 good?
My mandarins arn't heated with the tape and are on the bottom shelf of my racks. This seems to be the ticket for them.
The 125 is the biggest tank I have and figured it'd be the only option for a Beauty that size.(?)
Mike.

Mike,
I have to agree with Randy and Ronnie on this one.
I keep pairs and Trios together, but you're pushing the envelope with adding an 8' BB to that group. Just MHO....
.
I'm sure your BB is captive born and raised, but if it is a wild import, some asian pathogens can be devasting to NA Rats, if cultured in the right conditions.
Good luck with it, whichever path you take.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

>>I have a large Black rat about 7' housed with a 5'yellow and a thick 4 1/2' male corn. No problems here what-so-ever. They are in a 6' long 125 gal tank so there is plenty of room to roam. All come out for feeding but the black rat to keep the feeding kaos minimal and safe.
>>Ok, with that said, I'm considering introducing a large 8' blue beauty into this group and am wondering, has this Asian species of rat snake ever been known to be caniblistic?
>>My japanese and mandarins arn't, any other rats that I've had wern't but this is a big snake.
>>What are you're thoughts?
>>Mike.

IMHO, beauties might not be cannibalistic, but they are voracious feeders and could be very competitive.

As far as temps go, I think a 70-80* room temp range is good, but would also consider a hot spot in the cage to about 85*F. for digestion purposes. Not positive the beauty would use it, but I'm sure the N. A. rats would.

TC

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Conserve reptiles by helping protect habitat.

Bill, yes the one that I have in mind is captive bred. From time to time I've been tempted by wild caught like with the to good to be true prices on the w/c Mandarins for sale. I recently gave in to a w/c 4' female 100 Flower snake at the Hamburg show. You know what C/b babies go for so I shelled out the $75 which was cheap if things went...which they didn't.
I don't loose snakes for no apparent reason, but she only lasted two weeks. Never fed and who knows how long before me it hadn't or how it was treated after its capture and before I got it. I re-learned a valuable lesson. No more wild caught on the exotics.
I suppose I could put the two bearded dragons in a 30 gal. I have and give the 8' Blue the 55 gal.
What do you think the minimum that the blue could be kept by itself in?
I really like the big Blue but want to keep it correctly.
Mike.

TC, As for being voracious feeders thats a plus. I remove most of my snakes to tubs to eliminate competitiveness and the chance of bedding being swallowed (aspen shavings). I also makes handling at other times safer. the only guy that I feed in his tank is my big male black rat but he's like a kitten.
Mike.

>>TC, As for being voracious feeders thats a plus. I remove most of my snakes to tubs to eliminate competitiveness and the chance of bedding being swallowed (aspen shavings). I also makes handling at other times safer. the only guy that I feed in his tank is my big male black rat but he's like a kitten.
>>Mike.

Mike, that sounds pretty good, but one thing you might want to be careful about is that taeniurus will strike at the scent of prey. For instance, it might grab your hand as you are putting a mouse into its feeding container. Likewise, after feeding your other ratsnakes, they might have some prey scent on them when you put them back in the tank. Just a little observation that might help.

I sometimes keep more than one snake together, such as during winter brumation, especially if they are going to breed in the spring anyway. But most of the year I keep my adult snakes separate. I know that's not always convenient, but seems like the best way to me from my experience.

- Terry
www.ratsnakehaven.com

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Conserve reptiles by helping protect habitat.

Mike, that sounds pretty good, but one thing you might want to be careful about is that taeniurus will strike at the scent of prey. For instance, it might grab your hand as you are putting a mouse into its feeding container. Likewise, after feeding your other ratsnakes, they might have some prey scent on them when you put them back in the tank. Just a little observation that might help.
I sometimes keep more than one snake together, such as during winter brumation, especially if they are going to breed in the spring anyway. But most of the year I keep my adult snakes separate. I know that's not always convenient, but seems like the best way to me from my experience.

- Terry
www.ratsnakehaven.com

Terry, believe me I know about that one and do not handle the f/t mice while feeding. I use 12" tongs for everything and wash my hands imediately after if I do handle one before going near another snake.
I learned the hard way, especially with kings.
Sweat snakes but at feeding time thier brain takes time off. They'll hit anything when they smell a mouse, coil up and kill it. I've had a king latch on and swallow my thumb to the knuckle in sceonds.
I've also got a white lip python that knows instantly when the mice are brought out and becomes so aggresive it borders on Psychotic.
I appreciate your opinion on the blue beauty guys and as much as I like him I think I'll hold off a little. Maybe I'll pick up a juvenile pair that I can put in a smaller enclosure giving myself time to prepare for the future.
Thanks again, Mike.

ok, sorry not to cause a problem but... Why do people insist on craming as many animals into a cage as they can? You want to put 24 ft of snake into a six foot cage?? Come on seriously... And two adult bearded dragons into a 30 gal? At this point you obviously have too many animals for the space you have available and honestly i mean no disrespect. The fact that you currently have 16ft of snake (not to mention 3 different species) in a six foot is bad enough. And 4 bearded dragons in a six... That is like 4 grown adults living in a 12 x 6 room. Again no disrespect intended, but it really bugs me when people cram their animals together rather than providing the necessary space for them... Sorry had to vent.

Fact is that 90% of the time if you look into the tank you are lucky to see one snake. They spend alot of time coiled in thier hides or up in the climbing branches. 6' of tank gives alot of stretching out room which your avaerage vision cage doesn't provide. Also in a tank that has miltiple hides two snakes will often chose to coil together time and again, with five and a half feet free to the side. The three and a half foot corn has now a six foot tank to roam rather than a two foot twenty gallon that I'd say the majority of pet owners keep them in by themselves. I'd say alot of the pros keep them in tubs that are inches high and about big enough to just about streach out diagonally in.
Given a choice, would you rather be in that 12x6 room with two other people or in a 4x2 room by yourself?
Incidentally, two dragons in the 55 gal that they are in now gives them 4-5 times thier body length of running room.(heathy, active and into thier 7th year)
One other observation I've made over the years, most snakes housed by themselves appear less active than those that are housed with others. This activity promotes in my opinion better heath. My snakes are healthy feeders and while not being "power fed" are large for thier age. Small meals 10-14 days apart. I don't push it. One example I have is a black rat that is 5 years and tops 7'.
Also, in that they chose to coil together when separate hides exist feet aprt I'd say that these animals arn't stressed at all, rather a certain element of what zoos refer to as "enrichment" exists here.
Nobody is crammed here. Ok theres my vent.
Mike.