Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hard to tell but he has red eyes!!!

The tail is almost see through and you can see his little heart beating!!!

I actually have not sexed it..... its just a baby and thinks everything wants to it her/him/it!

Satan

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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

This is going to be amazing.....

ummm, it IS amazing!!

Satan

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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Very cool!

Kevin
Congrats!!
Do all of the hatchlings in this clutch have the wavey or "serated" edge to their tails?
Mike
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Mike's Monitors!

>>Kevin
>>Congrats!!
>>Do all of the hatchlings in this clutch have the wavey or "serated" edge to their tails?
>>Mike
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>>Mike's Monitors!

They start out with that and then it seems to go away as they grow a bit...... that's a lot of lizard to jam in a little egg!!!!

Kevin
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Kevin
That will be interesting to see how it turns out.
That wavey tail on a giant may look pretty cool!
At any rate Beautiful lil monster!
Mike
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Mike's Monitors!

>>Hard to tell but he has red eyes!!!
>>
>>
>>The tail is almost see through and you can see his little heart beating!!!
>>

****Correction******
>>I actually have not sexed it..... its just a baby and thinks everything wants to it EAT her/him/it! ****Correction*****
>>
>>Satan
>>
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>>"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally

Time to get rid of Balls, and make room for Albino Waters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That lil monster is GORGEOUS!!!!!!!

big CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell Trent I put that pic on here for him cause I don't have his email...

Wow, that really is something. You guys continue to amaze. Congrats.

>>Wow, that really is something. You guys continue to amaze. Congrats.

Thanks!!!

Kev
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Nice Albino.... just wondering will that lizard be more sensitive to UVB light or any kind of light seeing as its albino? Since monitors typically have to be around alot of bright lights to maintain proper temperature?

>>Nice Albino.... just wondering will that lizard be more sensitive to UVB light or any kind of light seeing as its albino? Since monitors typically have to be around alot of bright lights to maintain proper temperature?

The adults I have have no problems with UV. The baby is light sensitive for sure and like to close his eyes a fair bit. His eyelids are translucent! I think his skin will thicken up a bit as he grows and such...but this is the first baby I have had to play with so it will be a learning experience for sure!

Kevin
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Congrats Kevin, I'm sure establishing and keeping these beasts was quite time consuming and challenging.
Don't mean to piss on your parade, but am I the only one who is not very excited about monitor morphs? Is this really the path we want to go down with varanids? Think of all the issues we have with burms and retics, does the hobby really need expensive, large hard to keep monitors?
Will these be advertised as an "investment opportunity"?
We can't even teach the basic husbandry skills needed to have these animals thrive in captivity to most who buy them. Do we need to be promoting the keepers who can afford this type of project to be spending their $ and resources on a varanid species with the largest distribution and least environmental pressures? Is this a wise use of our dwindling resources as a community?
I'm sure this will rub many the wrong way, but I believe this is a valid viewpoint and do not bring it up to put anyone or their hard work down, just think it's a point that should be addressed.
Ben Aller.

We can't breed monitors, let alone the large ones, worth a crap, so huge numbers aren't going to be happening. Sit back, relax, and enjoy these beautiful albinos. They are, and will ALWAYS be, rare and expensive and in the hands of only a very select few lucky individuals.

>>Congrats Kevin, I'm sure establishing and keeping these beasts was quite time consuming and challenging.
>>Don't mean to piss on your parade, but am I the only one who is not very excited about monitor morphs? Is this really the path we want to go down with varanids? Think of all the issues we have with burms and retics, does the hobby really need expensive, large hard to keep monitors?

Huh? All the problems with Burms and Retics? So making an Albino will create a problem?

>>Will these be advertised as an "investment opportunity"?

You bet!!!! I have invested at minimum $80K into it!!!!! I am very excited about making captive bred perfect little gems that grow into lovely beasts!

>> We can't even teach the basic husbandry skills needed to have these animals thrive in captivity to most who buy them. Do we need to be promoting the keepers who can afford this type of project to be spending their $ and resources on a varanid species with the largest distribution and least environmental pressures? Is this a wise use of our dwindling resources as a community?

I am lost on that statement....

>>I'm sure this will rub many the wrong way, but I believe this is a valid viewpoint and do not bring it up to put anyone or their hard work down, just think it's a point that should be addressed.

A point the "should be addressed"..... maybe I am misunderstanding you..... protect people that want them from their own process of decision making and their inability to know how to keep Water Monitors? I personally think that the water monitor is one of the most satisfying monitors that I have ever kept, mind you, I have kept a lot! Their personality and sheer "Dragoness" is magical in my eyes!

I have no problem with your words, I just don't think I understand your points!

Kevin
>>Ben Aller.
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Kevin,
I'm glad you didn't take my post as an attack on you as that is not my intention.
My point is that there are very few peolpe with the resources ( i.e money, time, space) to be able to afford a project like this. Diverting the efforts of these people to work with an animal that does not need protection is a waste of our captive resources.We as a community have a very small window of oppertunity to establish some of the available monitor species in captivity. The fact of the matter is very soon all importation of monitors will cease, we will be left with only the species we have been able to establish, as recent studies have shown, 25-50% of all monitor species will become extinct in our lifetimes, so this is a critical need. Promoting animals such as these as "investments" diverts needed resources away from conservation goals and in my opinion de-values the "normal" waters in the minds of many herpetoculturists.
I personally believe it is our responsibility as stewards of these beasts to promote a sense of value to these animals, morphs in my opinion keep the focus in our hobby on novelty instead of substance.
To see the dwindling ( look at the recent impact the economy has had on the aquaculture hobby or avain hobby) resources spent on novelties such as these seems a shame to me.Especially when there is so much work to be done bringing husbandry techniques up to date.
The problems I was refering to when I mentioned burms and retics is directly related to husbandry, these animals have been dumped, abused, killed and released when neophite owners can no longer care for them or when they get to big to handle/feed whatever.Now I'm not suggesting that poeple will buy albinos and dump them, but honestly were we seeing burms dumped when albinos were fetching $2-3,000 each? Are we seeing it now? How many dumped burms are het for albinism? How has breeding morphs helped burms? Retics? I noticed that in your recent article you state that keeping a 16 ft snake in a 8'x2'x30" enclosure is acceptable! Is this where varanoculture is heading? If so count me out.
If your main motivation for this project is personal monetary gain, more power to you, it's a free country. I would just hope that this hobby is big enough for more than one point of view.
Cheers,
Ben

>>Kevin,
>>I'm glad you didn't take my post as an attack on you as that is not my intention.
>>My point is that there are very few peolpe with the resources ( i.e money, time, space) to be able to afford a project like this. Diverting the efforts of these people to work with an animal that does not need protection is a waste of our captive resources.We as a community have a very small window of oppertunity to establish some of the available monitor species in captivity. The fact of the matter is very soon all importation of monitors will cease, we will be left with only the species we have been able to establish, as recent studies have shown, 25-50% of all monitor species will become extinct in our lifetimes, so this is a critical need. Promoting animals such as these as "investments" diverts needed resources away from conservation goals and in my opinion de-values the "normal" waters in the minds of many herpetoculturists.

Ok, I see your point.... the other side is that it creates new interest and may help bring in new people to the hobby. I also believe that most monitor keepers like to keep several species. I think things have changed a fair bit regarding Indo monitor species.... I think less people are keeping them than several years ago. I really think a big albino monitor will help get attention to persons that have never even considered keeping Varanus species. I don't think this project will take away the time and money of keepers that would otherwise invest in species to "bank" and establish them in captivity. I do see your point but I don't think it would be negative like that!

>>I personally believe it is our responsibility as stewards of these beasts to promote a sense of value to these animals, morphs in my opinion keep the focus in our hobby on novelty instead of substance.

They also shock people and generate interest in their beauty. To a person unfamiliar with Monitors it may be be the one thing that causes them to investigate keeping them. This "hobby" needs to constantly bring in new people, if things remain static we lose interest and may lose more people than what can be replaced.
We would not have so many people keeping Ball Pythons if there were not so many AMAZING mutations...... it creates interest, although not scientific it is a GOOD THING!!!!

I don't think an Albino Water would be regarded as a Novelty.... the real mutation is a $20K animal!!! Novelties are in my mind a bit cheaper than that! More like pocket change!

>>To see the dwindling ( look at the recent impact the economy has had on the aquaculture hobby or avain hobby) resources spent on novelties such as these seems a shame to me.Especially when there is so much work to be done bringing husbandry techniques up to date.
>>The problems I was refering to when I mentioned burms and retics is directly related to husbandry, these animals have been dumped, abused, killed and released when neophite owners can no longer care for them or when they get to big to handle/feed whatever.Now I'm not suggesting that poeple will buy albinos and dump them, but honestly were we seeing burms dumped when albinos were fetching $2-3,000 each? Are we seeing it now? How many dumped burms are het for albinism? How has breeding morphs helped burms? Retics? I noticed that in your recent article you state that keeping a 16 ft snake in a 8'x2'x30" enclosure is acceptable! Is this where varanoculture is heading? If so count me out.

You are comparing two VERY different animals...... don't mix Apples with Hand grenades. VERY DIFFERENT!!!!

>>If your main motivation for this project is personal monetary gain, more power to you, it's a free country.

You don't have a clue....

Not even close......but I invested a huge amount of money, I do plan on selling some of my babies at some point. I LOVE my monitors, period, do not try to reduce this to an issue of $$$ and GREED! Not even close!

Kevin

I would just hope that this hobby is big enough for more than one point of view.
>>Cheers,
>>Ben
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Ben,

Please don't take this as a personal attack but your posts are rediculous. They make no sense at all and you just sound like you are having a good rant. Why on earth shouldn't a keeper breed what he wants? It's what makes Kevin happy...that's what it is all about anyway
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Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

Kevin!!!!

Congrats! I know you've got to be over the moon about that little guy and how hard you've worked for this day! Couldn't happen to a nicer guy!

Robin (from GA)