Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Its been many years since I have been into snakes. I brought home a baby Hogg Island Boa about 4 weeks ago from a reptile show. She is about 15 inches long. The vendor told me that she was eating frozen small mice/hoppers. She has under tank heater as well as basking spot, hide box etc...

I had been trying to feed her every few days.I started with a size that seemed appropriate for her, the large frozen pinkies seemed to be good compared to her girth. I also tried frozen pinkies, fuzzies, small mice, we tried everything, I sure did waste alot. I tried rubbing them on a live mouse, taping her on the nose, annoying her with them, splitting the head to leak brains (I read that they loved the blood and guts), putting them in a smaller container, nothing worked. I finally broke down and bought a pregnant mouse and she had babies. We cant find live mice around here that arent huge. Yesterday, I tried with the live large fuzzies and she ate 2 of them pretty quickly. I know reptile shows are traumatic and a new enclosure and whatnot can cause stress. I was just so desperate to see her eat, I didnt want her to lose strength/mass.

I do know the bad things about feeding live rodents, please no lectures about what could happen, I actually have 200 mice in the freezer of various sizes for her and my milksnakes. We have had boas in the past and always fed frozen or at least pre killed rodents.

What else can I try to get her to accept the frozen mice? Is there a rule of thumb for babies, if they refuse frozen for so long, should give a live, just so she gets food? How often should I try or how often should I expect her to eat at this point (frozen or live)?

Your help is greatly appreciated!
Shell and Deliah (Hogg Island Boa)

I have heard of the occasional boa that holds out for live only.

Boas easily eat large prey. I wouldn't waste pinks. Try a larger size, even fuzzy sounds small to me. Then warm up the thawed rodent to 90-something degrees.

Also try thawed rat pinks. They are big and usually elicit a feeding response from other live-only stubborn snakes I've had.
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Mark

I will try next week with something a bit larger f/t. Is the feeding recommendation nothing bigger than the widest part of the snake? He head and neck are just so tiny,lol.

Here is a picture of her.
Thanks,
Shell

Ooh, pretty.

The feeding recommendation you mentioned is true only if temperatures, humidity and hides are sub-par. Since many captives are held in sub-par conditions, then that recommendation tends to be a good one. Also for a new snake which may be a bit stressed, smaller is better.

If the snake has access to 85 deg basking temps (and cooler temps of course in the rest of the cage) and ample humidity like boas from that area would experience, then a nice bulge in the snake's belly is of no concern. As an adult, it may use 90 deg basking temps often.

That thing can easily take a rat pink. My newborn rosies can, and they are much smaller. Snakes eat prey larger than their heads. See how big her head is? Give her heat, humidity and hides all over the place. She ought to respond with an appetite.
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Mark

She seems happy. The last two days she is really starting to move around alot. Flickers her tongue all the time. She has a 20 gallon long tank right now. One side has a medium sized heat pad and the other side has a lamp (on during the day). I cover top of the cage with a towel to contain the heat (half during the day, then entire top at night). The air temp at the top of the tank on the heat pad side fluctuates between 75 and 85. She has a hide box on the pad side and on the (cooler)other side. I am looking for a nice climbing branch for her but havent had much luck so far. Humidity ranges around 30-40, some places I have read this is OK for boas as long as they dont have shedding problems. I still want to raise it a little bit but am having difficulty. Does this all sound reasonable?

Thank you very much for the feeding recommendations, I guess I underestimate what she should be able to ingest. Its hard to watch that jaw separate. I have a handfull of huge fuzzy mice right now, one or two will still be good for next week.

Take Care,
Shell

Good for you for using a towel to cover the tank top.

30-40% humidity is too low if continuously that low. You want to raise that, and that can be tough to do with a screen top.

The 20L tank maybe too large for the little boa at the moment. Perhaps a 10gal is in order for the time being.

Re humidity, you have some options. One is to cover more of the top, nearly all. If that means you cannot use the heat lamp then get another heat pad. Use a dimmer to make one heat pad on somewhat, and the other heat pad can be on a separate dimmer on a higher setting. I recommend a thermostat for the heat pad on the higher setting.

Another option is to use a smaller cage like a small storage box or one of the small cages advertised in the classifieds.

What I would end up with in the end is a plastic cage with a small radiant heat panel. With that, you are set. There are a few cage mfgrs on the classifieds that offer that package all ready to go. Your boa is too small right now for a cage like that most likley, so a small storage box with heat pads is likley the easiest option until the snake grows up a little.
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Mark

I checked the humidity at about 12 today and it was near 50%, but its not consistant. Her large hide box is located half on the heat pad and half off, she spends most of her time in that one but not on the pad side.

I am not at all happy with the screens on the top of the critter cages (sliding screen top). I have cats and they love to jump on the tops to curl up in the warm areas. The screens always need to be tightened. Its worse on my dragons cage but once the Boa starts going for the top I think she will push the screen right out if it is loose, they are not really secure. I was actually thinking of replacing the tops with 1/4" plexiglass with drilled holes. That would definetely increase the humidity and they would be alot more sturdy.

Thanks you very much for the suggestions, I will see what I can do.

Shell

I wish you all the luck. The acrylic top idea will work nicely. You can drill some 1/4" holes, like a cluster on one end of the lid and one on the other. Leave the middle solid. Just a suggestion when your room humidity is less than 60%.

I used hook & loop fasteners (e.g. Velcro) to secure the lid. Ultimately you want a more secure cage. I guess we are not supposed to name suppliers, but I also think we can if using examples. www.herpcages.com makes nice small cages that are easy to heat. The 20x20x20 will house your boa for awhile.

Remember that the easiest to heat cages and best for humidity do not have alot of air volume. Instead, there is alot of mass in the cage to hold heat and humidity. Branches, tight hides, water bowl with lots of surface area, etc.
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Mark

I have a few cages similiar to those, bought at a Big NYC Herp online store, they are white laminated fiberboard with a glass front and hinged door. They have no fixtures in them though, or holes for cords. I also have a low profile grey resin enclosure that doesnt have fixtures as well. I do have a larger homemade cage that was made for boas, 15 years ago, its just way to big for her now.

I think I will start with the plexi top, on the glass tank for now. I think adding a few pieces of foam presentation board to the sides and back may help too. I have been checking the humidity at night and it has been higher when I cover the tank with the towel (60-80% for at least 12 hours). If I cover it during the day without the light I am still keeping the same air temp with the higher humidity, I guess the light isnt as important for now. Its just nice to give her that option instead of the warmer hide box area.

She did eat again, a huge fuzzy. So I guess she is pretty happy.

Thank you very much for all of your suggestions,
Michelle

She's pretty. I own a Hogg myself, and she's wondeful. I would suggest getting your snake off that repticarpet though. It's not the best of materials, plus, while unlikely, it is possible that her recurved MAY get hooked onto those synthetic fibers. Personally I have seen that with a lizard or two.

I keep my Hogg on aspen, plus aspen is natural, and absorbent to some extent. Easy to replace..just my 2cents.