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*pregnant (It wouldn't fit in the subject space) I am just curious.

>>*pregnant (It wouldn't fit in the subject space) I am just curious.

They generally start losing weight in the base of the tail, the belly hangs low and they may eat less food than normal. As the female gets close to laying eggs she becomes very restless, digs a bunch and bask!!!

Also quite dependent on the species.......

Kevin
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Depends on the animals living conditions.
Ive seen females gain weight, alot around the stomach, and never lose noticeable weight in their tails, to me noticeable weight loss in the tail is a bad sign.
In fact Sobek was once eggbound, she didnt lose weight in her tail until she was over 4 weeks eggbound with nothing but 2 adult mice eaten, all this with 44 eggs (5 lbs worth).
My female ackies never lost weight in their tails, I have seen a female argus lose weight in the tail during that time, but she was not in the best of conditions at all, she also took weeks to recover which is a bad sign. My ackies always regained all lost weight, if much at all in days, the same with the beardies we bred.
Depends really, you can have a female lay eggs without a male, this happens alot.
They gain alot of weight around the base of the abdomen in front of the rear legs, they bask alot more than normal, they dig alot of holes deciding where the best conditions to make a nest are, and they eat alot less as they have only so much room to place food when full of eggs. They become defensive of their nest, even though a male may help to dig the nest he will stay at a slight distance to protect the female sometimes, both will readily bite you if you meddle with the nest and do not remove them first.

>>Depends on the animals living conditions.
>>Ive seen females gain weight, alot around the stomach, and never lose noticeable weight in their tails, to me noticeable weight loss in the tail is a bad sign.

** Hmmmmmm...... My breeding has generally been with Indonesian Varanus and it seems pretty consistent to lose a bit of weight in the tail as they get close to laying. THe belly gets quite big and then "falls" like an old horse. I do not think the tail weight loss is a bad sign one bit...when I see that I generally know I should see good viable eggs. If the tail remains full I worry and that may mean i am getting duds. I think the bit of tail weight loss is due to the eggs robbing the animal of nutrients, calcium and water.... which appears to be a good thing. I have bred Argus MANY times and they get a big belly and the tail base thins out right before laying. As far as Ackies and such I have bred them a bit and freckled, I can not say I noticed as much of a weight loss in the tail but I think I noticed a bit.

>>In fact Sobek was once eggbound, she didnt lose weight in her tail until she was over 4 weeks eggbound with nothing but 2 adult mice eaten, all this with 44 eggs (5 lbs worth).
>>My female ackies never lost weight in their tails, I have seen a female argus lose weight in the tail during that time, but she was not in the best of conditions at all, she also took weeks to recover which is a bad sign. My ackies always regained all lost weight, if much at all in days, the same with the beardies we bred.
>>Depends really, you can have a female lay eggs without a male, this happens alot.

**Yes, and those eggs are less demanding on the animal so you may not even know she is gravid..... I was speaking of generally viable eggs and such.

>>They gain alot of weight around the base of the abdomen in front of the rear legs, they bask alot more than normal, they dig alot of holes deciding where the best conditions to make a nest are, and they eat alot less as they have only so much room to place food when full of eggs. They become defensive of their nest, even though a male may help to dig the nest he will stay at a slight distance to protect the female sometimes, both will readily bite you if you meddle with the nest and do not remove them first.

*** I can say with Indo monitors having the male in the cage around egg laying time...as well as any other females is NOT a good thing!!!! Females get super aggressive about their nesting sight and may kill any other cage mates.... not quite the same as breeding Ackies... To breed monitors its all about giving them the right conditions to lay. If you don't give the female what she needs she may hold the eggs too long or scatter them about the cage. I think breeding Ackies and such is a bit more like breeding bearded dragons..... they are so tractable and the aggression seems far less than some of the larger Varanus I have played around with. Even Savannahs get a big low hanging belly and a "gaunt" look to them right before laying.... When I breed my Argus it seems standard that the female will look rough right after laying since they dedicate so much of themselves to reproduction and making good viable eggs. They bounce back quick and I do no see that as an uncommon or bad thing.

** But what do I know....

SATAN
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Ive seen argus with very little tail weight loss, and some that are not so violent with their cage mates during nesting, and some that tried to kill their cage mates during that time. The females I saw that were violent with cage mates during nesting lost alot of weight in the tail, probably stress.
If you think that ackies are so calm and tractible you havent seen many, they are just smaller and therefore easier to deal with than some species. Ive had red ackies injure each other over food, and one fight over a nesting sight, I made a few small changes the next time and it stopped. From that point on the male stayed near the nesting sights, protected the female (pretty violently I might add) and I even saw him in the hole helping her dig as she rested a bit before she layed.
I saw an argus pair that the female was very violent nearing nesting time, she layed duds which were then shared by both male and female as food. That female lost a noticeable amount of weight in the tail.
Theres a difference between a small weight loss in the tail, and a noticeable weight loss, to me thats a sign of a problem.
Beardies on the other hand will both stay at the nesting sight, the male will threaten and bluff but not defend the nest (unlike ackies which will leap and hang on "bulldogging". Heck, my ackies leap for food, you have to watch your fingers.

Ask FR if he sees noticeable weight loss in his females tails at nesting time, or if he sees a small amount in the tails. I got a load of great info from him over the years when it comes to this stuff, and it has always helped me to fall back on it when I question something that seems wrong.

Ive seen argus go either way as far as being aggressive with the male or notieable weight loss(these were some I took care of for friends who wanted them to breed, they did breed a few times before they went back to their owners, and have bred since then). But those with a little bit of tail weight loss werent violent with their cagemates, in fact both were rather violent with anyone attempting to get into the cage, the male protected the female.
Ive seen ackie males protect the females as they layed, very protective of her, and help her dig the nest sometimes beforehand. Im no expert by any means, but I have had a few generations of red ackies I bred, most of which were either given away or sold by friends with reptile based businesses.
Some of my ackies were very calm, almost friendly animals, most are jumpy, and dont hesitate to leap and take a good bite of your fingers whether over food or their mates.
In the last few years most of the ackie eggs get fed to my flavi-argus. I havent had any interest in hatching them for a while now, its very difficult to find homes for them, dont ask me why. Unless I know for sure that someone is interested ahead of time and I know they are serious about taking an entire clutch I wont hatch any more for now. I recently offered 2 free clutches to friends, both were not interested, both had some trouble selling them before so didnt want any.
I think the problem is with the buyers/adopters themselves, most who act interested, keep changing their minds, or dont have any money to even pay shipping when the lizards are available. I had to give away or sell a few to local people to get get my collection down to size.
I have reduced my collection over the years to make room for a second large dog, and to free up some time for our other hobbies such as hiking, target shooting, and spending time with the dogs outdoors. Dont get me wrong, my wife and I both like the monitors, and she liked the beardies, especially her female and the last male we kept, but I wanted the collection to be fun again, and alot less work than it became after it was much much larger.
So yes I throw away the eggs.
I also dont believe anyone on internet forums anymore when they tell me that they want the hatchlings, or even adults, whether Im selling them or giving them away, too many actually werent serious enough to take them, and cant make their minds up for months and months. So to me its not worth it to hatch anymore for now.

>>Ive seen argus go either way as far as being aggressive with the male or notieable weight loss(these were some I took care of for friends who wanted them to breed, they did breed a few times before they went back to their owners, and have bred since then). But those with a little bit of tail weight loss werent violent with their cagemates, in fact both were rather violent with anyone attempting to get into the cage, the male protected the female.
>>Ive seen ackie males protect the females as they layed, very protective of her, and help her dig the nest sometimes beforehand. Im no expert by any means, but I have had a few generations of red ackies I bred, most of which were either given away or sold by friends with reptile based businesses.
>>Some of my ackies were very calm, almost friendly animals, most are jumpy, and dont hesitate to leap and take a good bite of your fingers whether over food or their mates.
>>In the last few years most of the ackie eggs get fed to my flavi-argus. I havent had any interest in hatching them for a while now, its very difficult to find homes for them, dont ask me why. Unless I know for sure that someone is interested ahead of time and I know they are serious about taking an entire clutch I wont hatch any more for now. I recently offered 2 free clutches to friends, both were not interested, both had some trouble selling them before so didnt want any.
>>I think the problem is with the buyers/adopters themselves, most who act interested, keep changing their minds, or dont have any money to even pay shipping when the lizards are available. I had to give away or sell a few to local people to get get my collection down to size.
>>I have reduced my collection over the years to make room for a second large dog, and to free up some time for our other hobbies such as hiking, target shooting, and spending time with the dogs outdoors. Dont get me wrong, my wife and I both like the monitors, and she liked the beardies, especially her female and the last male we kept, but I wanted the collection to be fun again, and alot less work than it became after it was much much larger.
>>So yes I throw away the eggs.
>>I also dont believe anyone on internet forums anymore when they tell me that they want the hatchlings, or even adults, whether Im selling them or giving them away, too many actually werent serious enough to take them, and cant make their minds up for months and months. So to me its not worth it to hatch anymore for now.

I don't know...... you chime in with your "vast" experience and then zing me with if the female is getting skinny in the tail you need to rethink the health of the animal and blah blah...

That single statement does not hold up very well with me. To me it says you don't know much about many types of Varanus....

Sure Ackies......and maybe even Argus a bit but you point says a good animal will look like this and I have tons of experience... if it is not this way then the person may be deficient in their husbandry. I have bred MANY Argus, I would GUARANTEE that I have bred more of them than you and it was a common to see the females get "drawn out" looking with a thinned down tail. Secondly, what is the point of keeping a female with a male when she is ready to lay? I think logic may be in order here. She is looking for a safe place to lay her eggs, as she gets disturbed she gets stressed and may hold the eggs too long. They like a safe and quiet location with the right conditions.... Having to worry about activity around her nest in my eyes is no good! This was a major failure on my part early on trying to breed monitors... eventually I learned. The point is you say you have a great amount of experience and success breeding monitors and you even throw the eggs away... I don't know what that really means....Isn't the point to generate new life and feel proud of making babies? You could not even give the babies away? I could in a heart beat.... Even sell them cheap but throw the eggs away because you are tired of digging them up just sounds ridiculous!

I am no monitor god but I am fairly well versed at keeping them and I do know some things.....

If you want to correct me make sure you come armed with something more than a toy gun!

SATAN
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

I'd give my left nut to hatch some monitors.

Never once have I said I have vast experience with breeding them, but I have experience with some. The only one saying I claimed that was someone who was trolling.
Like I said before, theres a difference between noticeable tail weight loss and a small amount which is normal. Maybe your misunderstanding this.
I had multiple monitors that sat around with tons of offers to buy, and to be given away, no one followed through regardless on so many of them. There were some that I could make a phone call and have a friend set up shipping after a quick call and agreement with no effort. The majority of them would never become serious even over almost a years time. It was alot easier to sell them through 2 friends businesses (one online, one in a store). I even gave away a young female that was laying eggs on a regular basis to someone (did that with some beardies). Even the online business owner had problems with most offers not being serious.
I used to have 8-10 cages sitting around in use, now Im down to 3 cages. It was fun to dig them up, to hatch them (waiting was the worst part), most of the effort was in selling or giving them away.
Now my freezer has alot more room for canine, feline food, of which I get 100-140 lbs at a time. The roaches caused allergy problems for me after a several years, and crickets are alot easier to deal with now that I only get one box every now and then.
I dont have to put any more effort into them breeding than how I normally keep them, all I have to do is dispose of eggs every now and then.

I dont understand how somebody can just throw away good ackie eggs like they are nothing. Maybey you should not breed them if you are going to waste their offspring like that. There are a lot of people out there that would love to be able to breed these beautiful monitors. Maybey I am crazy I dont know.

I cant understand is how people think Im purposefully breeding them then throwing eggs away.
All I do is keep them in their normal cages, feed them, make sure the lights work, once every now and then I feed the eggs to a flaviargus to make use of them because I dont incubate them.
They breed on their own, all I do is keep them healthy and watch them go.
Why should I separate them when they do so good together?

I think it is a waste. Basically what you are doing is throwing away babies that could bring someone else enjoyment. I find it hard to believe that you could not give them away. I thought they were one of the more popular monitor lizards. I only have one but I want to get more to breed. They are one my favorite little monitors. I just think it is a shame that you waste it like that. Give the little guys a chance. This is just what I think is all. I would be in heaven if I had breeding ackies. Just think how fortunate you are.

Has spent their lives together since hatching, just as their parents, and theirs before.
If it makes you feel any better I have fed them alot less for a while now, it happens alot less often with infrequent feedings, but still happens on its own. Id rather have them live their lives together happy, then separate them just to stop them from laying eggs.
My flaviargus does not consider them as being wasted, he is making use of them.
My experience with finding homes for them just turns me off of hatching them anymore.

Ok, to lay this one to rest.

THe next time that pair lays eggs, incubate the eggs and hatch them. Offer the babies for a cheap magical price of $50.00 each plus shipping, take that money and keep half for the cost of their care (and maybe buy some chicken eggs) and the other donate to a Herp related charity such as Cyclura research and protection. This way you have taken a simple food item and turned it into life and made some people happy and get the good feeling of doing something positive! If i had eggs that I was throwing away or feeding off I think that would be a better alternative! I have chickens that give me eggs that I can feed to my monitors, not monitors that lay eggs to feed to other monitors! Plus, if you did this think about all of the people you would SHUT UP!!!!

There, when you expecting your next clutch?

SATAN

>>I think it is a waste. Basically what you are doing is throwing away babies that could bring someone else enjoyment. I find it hard to believe that you could not give them away. I thought they were one of the more popular monitor lizards. I only have one but I want to get more to breed. They are one my favorite little monitors. I just think it is a shame that you waste it like that. Give the little guys a chance. This is just what I think is all. I would be in heaven if I had breeding ackies. Just think how fortunate you are.
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Was the last one, who knows when the next will be. I had posted a picture of her digging with just her tail sticking out of the hole at the time.
It really doesnt matter if I offered them for free and had the interested owners just pay for shipping, most would just sit. Ive already explained that. Selling them, advertising them, dealing with the customer is the part that sucks, so many people who are looking at buying reptiles cant seem to make their minds up. The part of the operation that involves dealing with the lizards and eggs is the easy part.
You could offer to give away free gold and most of the people who contact you would try to bargain, think about it over and over, and would want to wheel and deal for months, then they would lose interest, but not want you to give it to someone else.

Thanks.

With that being said:

I had my 2 savs together in their new enclosure for what, about 3 weeks. I THINK ( I say that hesitantly) I have a male and female, but know the odds of them doing it and one being pregnant are not very good since it is just 1:1, and I ended up separating them because they hated each other and the 'male' stopped eating. 'Female' has always been healthy as an ox. I separated them about 2 weeks ago. Just this week the female is not eating (which has NEVER happened), she has gotten very, very defensive (which she has never been either, I raised her from a baby so she has never hissed or whipped like she all of the sudden has started). I thought maybe the temps were too low so i raised them, but she is still acting like this. She does eat, if i leave food in there for her it will be gone in a few hours, but usually she runs for the door and rips the food right from the tongs.

Is it possible she is pregnant?

With that description it doesnt sound like being gravid, seems to me more like stress from changes, whether it be environment, cagemates, etc.
Give it time, see if the lizard goes back to normal after adjusting to whats going on around it. Is still say cover that open section of the top of that cage to only be able to see in through the sides. It makes you seem less threatening upon approach of the cage, also helps the environment of the cage stay where you want it during the winter especially, the air gets drier in the house with the heat on.
See what happens in a week or so.

>>With that description it doesnt sound like being gravid, seems to me more like stress from changes, whether it be environment, cagemates, etc.
>>Give it time, see if the lizard goes back to normal after adjusting to whats going on around it. Is still say cover that open section of the top of that cage to only be able to see in through the sides. It makes you seem less threatening upon approach of the cage, also helps the environment of the cage stay where you want it during the winter especially, the air gets drier in the house with the heat on.
>>See what happens in a week or so.

Well then, I would think that there may also be something else going on. The female me have developing follicles due to the time of year and the introduction to a possible male. Mind you, my ideas only work if the animal is in fact a female. I often see girls that have follicle development slow down on feeding, act a bit uppity and bask a bunch. They will often do this prior to copulation. If any of this is right and this is the case then she may need to visit a male soon and behavior noted.
A few pics of the animals and base of the tail would help me try to sex them. Female Savannahs often have small heads for their body when compared to males and of course the tail difference. If this female is put back with the other animal watch the supposed "male" and how he reacts. If you notice a lot of tongue flicking and the male reacting to her by investigating her and tongue flicking heavily she may be receptive. This reintroduction could be repeated ever 4 - 6 days and then suddenly this activity is noted, meaning that she is in the right point for breeding. But they could both be girls!

Just some ideas..

Kevin
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Wow thanks man. I posted some pics of each of them a few months back if you do a search, otherwise i'll post them again later. I am about 60% sure I have a male and a female but when I put them together the 'female' acts like a 'male' and the 'male' acts like a scared wuss and runs and hides. The 'female' is also quite a bit bigger than the 'male' which may be why she over powers him i am guessing. I had to separate them from the 8x8 enclosure i just built for them cause the 'male' just stopped eating as if trying to tell me "get me the f out of here!" cause the 'female' was being an ass so much. BUT now that they are separated, the 'female' is being the ass and the 'male' is back to eating.
'weird'