Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hi all,

i have this rainbow boa, wich is either a very dark coloured brazilian or a normal peruvian. the cresents are fully blacked out so u get an "eclipse" effect

now i've been doubting for 3 years, and really want to have a correct awnser. and not only for future breeding or such, i just really really want to know what species it is. even if it would be a brazilian with peruvian blood mixed in it somewhere in the past, it would all be good. as long as i know.

so therefore my next question, is it possible to distinguish the 2 species, i read once the scales are different, if so... what's the difference and how do i spot it? i wil be keeping his next shed to do some counting.

hope someone can help me

kind regards
Leeroy
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arata akebono, shidare yanagi, seijin no mai!

I believe the only clearly measurable difference is mid body scale row counts. IMO best done with a shed, Starting at ventral scale, count scales diagonally until you get to the other side. Do this in a few places mid body. I don't remember the actual numbers... JEFF, please fill in_________
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Leeroy,
....Peruvians have larger scales than Brazilians and thus have fewer of them. With really big adults the scales even look noticeably larger. On smaller animals you have to count and it can be tedious. The only scale counts I keep handy to differentiate the two subspecies are scale rows at mid body. I think the numbers are that Peruvians should have 43 or fewer (sometimes 44) scale rows at midbody and Brazilians usually have more than 44, often 46 to 48. All of my Peruvians except one have nice big bright crescents. They all have thicker darker markings which are especially noticeable on the head. However, color and pattern are not reliable indicators to identify the subspecies. There are naturally occuring intergrades of the two subspecies from central Peru and intergrades also have probably been produced by accident by breeders here in the US. It is also likely that these two subspecies and the Isla Marajo subspecies will or have already been lumped together. Show us a PIC anyway?
....arata akebono, shidare yanagi, seijin no mai!??? I don't know Japanese but is that something about a new day or a new age? I do recognize the arata and seijin no part of that from my time in Korea. This does give me a good excuse to go to the Sushi restaurant to ask for help with translation.
Jeff

>>hi all,
>>
>>i have this rainbow boa, wich is either a very dark coloured brazilian or a normal peruvian. the cresents are fully blacked out so u get an "eclipse" effect
>>
>>now i've been doubting for 3 years, and really want to have a correct awnser. and not only for future breeding or such, i just really really want to know what species it is. even if it would be a brazilian with peruvian blood mixed in it somewhere in the past, it would all be good. as long as i know.
>>
>>so therefore my next question, is it possible to distinguish the 2 species, i read once the scales are different, if so... what's the difference and how do i spot it? i wil be keeping his next shed to do some counting.
>>
>>hope someone can help me
>>
>>kind regards
>>Leeroy
>>-----
>>arata akebono, shidare yanagi, seijin no mai!

hi

thx dave, jeff for the replies. the snake is now in shed and I will start the counting probably somewhere within 2 weeks or so. i do have some earlier shed's laying round here but not sure if it's from him or my other male.

pictures that I can do, I hope I don't violate any rules with these large pictures, there are bout half a year old or such. also don't mind the pose on the first pic, i was putting some anti bacterial ointment (i hope this is the correct word) on him that where needed that time. anyways without further delay pictures:

these are about a year old


how exactly do i count, could someone like open one of these pics up in paint and just colour mark the scales in a row or such so i got an idea?

ow and Dave, it is possible U remember some of these pictures as we mailed a while back about this male who got harassed by another male (that whas the reason he had little wounds(anti bac ointment), bad shed from other male rubbing and chasing the poor dude)

and to conclude my signature
arata akebono, a new day//a new horizon//a new beginning
shidare yanagi, weeping willow (nickname Salix wich is scientific name for willow)
seijin no mai, dance of the sage//dance of the "adult" (as in i've matured ^^)
-----
arata akebono, shidare yanagi, seijin no mai!

Leeroy,
...This is my adult female Isla Marajo Rainbow Boa,Epicrates cenchria barbouri. This subspecies comes from Isla Marajo which is the very large island formed between the two mouths of the Amazon. Your snake does look like this snake but again pattern and color are not reliable indicators for identification and unfortunately I do not have any information on scale counts for this subspecies. All the specimens I have seen were big and very heavy with dark maroon red color (one was dark dark orange) and adults seem to have heads that are fatter and rounder than Brazilians and Peruvians. Any chance that the snake came from Maryland Reptile Farm or importers in Miami?




...Thanks for the help with the Japanese.

Jeff
>>hi
>>
>>thx dave, jeff for the replies. the snake is now in shed and I will start the counting probably somewhere within 2 weeks or so. i do have some earlier shed's laying round here but not sure if it's from him or my other male.
>>
>>pictures that I can do, I hope I don't violate any rules with these large pictures, there are bout half a year old or such. also don't mind the pose on the first pic, i was putting some anti bacterial ointment (i hope this is the correct word) on him that where needed that time. anyways without further delay pictures:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>these are about a year old
>>
>>
>>how exactly do i count, could someone like open one of these pics up in paint and just colour mark the scales in a row or such so i got an idea?
>>
>>ow and Dave, it is possible U remember some of these pictures as we mailed a while back about this male who got harassed by another male (that whas the reason he had little wounds(anti bac ointment), bad shed from other male rubbing and chasing the poor dude)
>>
>>and to conclude my signature
>>arata akebono, a new day//a new horizon//a new beginning
>>shidare yanagi, weeping willow (nickname Salix wich is scientific name for willow)
>>seijin no mai, dance of the sage//dance of the "adult" (as in i've matured ^^)
>>-----
>>arata akebono, shidare yanagi, seijin no mai!

hi jeff,

this one isn't that big, although I have to admit it is my first snake and being the beginner that I was, I made beginner errors, temp being off for starters, and not having a proper feeding schedule being another. so I reckon he's a bit behind his normal length and such. although I do noticed him making extreme progress the moment I put him on adult rats once every 2 weeks or so.

this animal comes from a "regular" petshop here in Belgium, sold to me as being regular captive bred offspring (so Brazilian). tried to contact the shop several times over the past years didn't got an answer, and seeing as it's the other side of Belgium... never really went there again.

but really it doesn't look one bit like a normal Brazilian so.

also what U said about the head, I use to think it was just me but I guess now U mention it I might as well say so, I always thought that the head was different then my other rainbows. but then again it might just be my eyes .

any chance there are "researchers" who study the different sub species of the Epi c. ? or scientific papers or such about the scales of the different subspecies?

even if this turns out to be a normal oddly coloured Brazilian having some data and facts would prove more then welcome.

greets
Leeroy
-----
arata akebono, shidare yanagi, seijin no mai!

Leeroy,
...I was unable to find anything published on this subject a few years ago. The people at the Butantan Institute in Sao Paulo Brazil were recently working on renaming all of the subspecies. I am not sure if they have finalized and published yet. I have not done much of a search for this information recently and will see what I can find.
Jeff

>>hi jeff,
>>
>>this one isn't that big, although I have to admit it is my first snake and being the beginner that I was, I made beginner errors, temp being off for starters, and not having a proper feeding schedule being another. so I reckon he's a bit behind his normal length and such. although I do noticed him making extreme progress the moment I put him on adult rats once every 2 weeks or so.
>>
>>this animal comes from a "regular" petshop here in Belgium, sold to me as being regular captive bred offspring (so Brazilian). tried to contact the shop several times over the past years didn't got an answer, and seeing as it's the other side of Belgium... never really went there again.
>>
>>but really it doesn't look one bit like a normal Brazilian so.
>>
>>also what U said about the head, I use to think it was just me but I guess now U mention it I might as well say so, I always thought that the head was different then my other rainbows. but then again it might just be my eyes .
>>
>>any chance there are "researchers" who study the different sub species of the Epi c. ? or scientific papers or such about the scales of the different subspecies?
>>
>>even if this turns out to be a normal oddly coloured Brazilian having some data and facts would prove more then welcome.
>>
>>greets
>>Leeroy
>>-----
>>arata akebono, shidare yanagi, seijin no mai!

thx jeff,

if u find anything on this subject lemme know

i wil now be patiently waiting for the snake to shed, and then start counting scales

greets
Leeroy
-----
arata akebono, shidare yanagi, seijin no mai!

Counting the scales (on a shed) is easy. Looking at your pic...

See how the scales make a kinda chain link fence pattern? Look at thside pattern jut to the right of the irridescent patch. Notice how the lower edges of that pattern are made up of a "V" pattern of scales? With about 6 scales on either side? That's the rows of scales you are counting. Start with the first normal shaped scale next to the wide ventral row. Then follow that scale row diagonally, counting each scale until you get to the ventral scale on the other side. For example, what I can see in the pic, starting at that same side [pattern and going back, I count 15 scales before I can't see any further around the snake. Surprise surprise, I count the same number going forward
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

hi Dave,

after staring at the text and the picture for about 10 minutes I saw the diagonal lines, and counted 15 as well so think I got the hang of it, although I will probably post a picture of the shed cut on the ventral scale to be sure. now waiting for the shed.

thx already you've been a great help

greets
Leeroy
-----
arata akebono, shidare yanagi, seijin no mai!

Its a good looking snake, whatever its origin.
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Julie
www.[url ban]/gfx