Reptile & Amphibian Forums

the number of snakes in your house?

I'm moving about 2 miles down the road and of course, taking the critters with me. I have an educational business centered around 35 herps of varying types. My van has my business name on it, so it's kinda hard to hide. I've never had a problem at this house, and I have my state permits, liability insurance, local business license, you name it. I'm sure that I'm violating some local code ordinance just by sheer number of pets, but no one has ever complained. I'm not so sure with this new neighborhood, and I'm a bit nervous.

Any other experiences out there?

I never worry about it myself. Then again I don't openly advertise I have snakes either. However the apartment building I live in allows pets and most of the superintendents know I have reptiles (kind of hard as I have snake cages right across from the front door, been wanting to get a curtain to hide them but decided against it, be more a pain to move that curtain every time I want to feed/water/clean the snakes.)

Just because you have your business name on your van doesn't mean people will assume you have a business out of home either.
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PHLdyPayne

I always worry about what the neighbors will think. Everything I do is within legal limits as far as permitting is concerned. We are very professional and clean, and have had FWC wildlife inspectors come in and see our crew. The critters go out in the backyard to bask so as not to disturb the public at large. I have been told (through FWC news) that the state trumps local ordinances, so we'll see if it ever comes to a standoff.

Some people are just busybodies.

Most places I know of only have regulations against the "main" pets, like cats a dogs. (However, I'm really worried about that as well, considering I have eight cats under my room )

Most people don't even consider reptiles as pets, which is sort of my safety net with the amount of snakes in my house
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1.0 Normal Corn
1.0 Blizzard Corn
1.0 Lavender Corn
1.1 Ghost Stripe Corns
0.1 Anery Motley Corn
0.1 Pewter Corn
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Children's Python
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake

n/p
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1.0 Normal Corn
1.0 Blizzard Corn
1.0 Lavender Corn
1.1 Ghost Stripe Corns
0.1 Anery Motley Corn
0.1 Pewter Corn
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Children's Python
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake

I checked with my city. Check the code of your area and the set limitations to that code. For instance, I can have a home based business, but can't sell anything out of the house. I also checked with the city about exotics. There is no limit in my city for the number of exotics that you can own (like there is for dogs/cats). Snakes and lizards are considered exotics. The only restriction my city has, is the cages can not be within 20 feet of the property line.
Hope this helps.
Oh, I found out most of this information from the planning commitee, where you get your business license. They looked it all up for me.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"The more things change, the more they remain Insane"

Of course federal laws apply to all of us, that's easy.

I live in Ohio and we have laws that cover having/catching native and introduces species to Ohio as pets. State laws are usually on line but VERY hard to cipher thru. I use to look thru the Ohio Revised Code late at night at my college just before I got off shift. Mainly labor stuff as I was the prez of my union or a steward. The ORC full edition in books form was 4' long! But these should be easy to find either online or some department you can talk.

NOW municipal orders (Ohio's jargon)
Each city suburb village township or what ever can have their own laws and many are adding herp laws. Or exotics. From my little experience, around the Cleveland area, people seem to guess at what the laws are, because they hear about laws from other cities. This breeds a lot of misinformation. Common laws seem to be no hots (without permits) 10' boidae laws, no monitors exceeding 6', no gaters, or any crocodilians, no iguanas etc etc.

It's not hard to find this info, but I understand people are scared to ask. Be smart, ask people you know should know the proper answers. or a place you can check online.

As for people in your neighborhood. I'd just be quiet until you learn how your neighbors are. You may be surprised that many may have or have had herps. That would be great. If it is a new thing to the area, slowly show things to people interested for the right reasons, and always be very professional. Not like I did when I was 15 and take a 6' water monitor on the CTS bus in Cleveland to go to school, then when getting off I walked off the bus with her on my shoulder. I did this many many times! lol The W 25th street route actually had mimeographed (I'm old) copies of me on the buses and I was not allowed on with a box. After I moved on to parrots the drivers loved me. Sitting on a bus with a scarlet macaw playing dead on my lap is a great ice breaker.

I gave that long story for a reason. And I'm sure you are not one. but people can no longer do what I did back then. Some do, and I'm all sure we know someone that does it. People still walk in our shop with 12' burmese. or a big savannah on their chest. It does not help the reputation for all herp owners. SO, good ones that offer to educate people in the proper manner are so needed IMO. I really hate that people that like herps, or parrots bigger than something cockatiel have to act like second class citizens.

good luck in your move.

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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

well said.
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net

You could have 99.9% GREAT neighbors - but it only takes ONE busybody who hates (or is terrified of) snakes to make your life a living hell! With the huge numbers of laws and ordinances these days, you are almost for sure breaking SOME kind of law - even if it is unrelated to your animals. Everyone does it, and minor infractions usually go unnoticed - unless you have a "stalker" who really wants you or your animals gone, and will spend their time looking for ways to annoy you.

Also, in our lawsuit happy society, such people have been known to bring (and sometimes WIN!) silly suits over falling or injuring oneself after being scared by a pet herp. I remember reading one such case right here on one of the KS forums a few years ago (maybe on one of the python forums? Can't remember). Chances are that you won't be so unlucky to have a really miserable neighbor with time on their hands, willing to dedicate their lives to making you as miserable as they are. But don't assume it can't happen. Tread lightly in a new neighborhood. Try to get to know the neighbors first, and downplay your "weird obsession" as much as possible until you know them. Cultivate friends who will be on your side if you should meet up with a really bad apple later. Maybe your new neighbors will even warn you if there is a problem neighbor to beware of. Better safe than sorry!

I believe there was a long thread on the bp forum about Don and Colette Sutherland and how the town they wanted to move into gave them all kinds of problems, forcing them to abandon their plans and go elsewhere. They were a big operation compared to what you do, but still...don't ever underestimate the emotions of the uninformed masses, lol! Again, better safe than sorry!

Good luck!

Well stated. And I love a few of your phases or chosen words.

Please don't forget a "stalker" can also be a back stabber. Someone that befriends you to find how "weird" you are. These are generally higher than intelligent people with no lives, so they cruise pseudo friendships to gain their data. What a waste of chromosomes.

Great read Kathy

>>You could have 99.9% GREAT neighbors - but it only takes ONE busybody who hates (or is terrified of) snakes to make your life a living hell! With the huge numbers of laws and ordinances these days, you are almost for sure breaking SOME kind of law - even if it is unrelated to your animals. Everyone does it, and minor infractions usually go unnoticed - unless you have a "stalker" who really wants you or your animals gone, and will spend their time looking for ways to annoy you.
>>
>>Also, in our lawsuit happy society, such people have been known to bring (and sometimes WIN!) silly suits over falling or injuring oneself after being scared by a pet herp. I remember reading one such case right here on one of the KS forums a few years ago (maybe on one of the python forums? Can't remember). Chances are that you won't be so unlucky to have a really miserable neighbor with time on their hands, willing to dedicate their lives to making you as miserable as they are. But don't assume it can't happen. Tread lightly in a new neighborhood. Try to get to know the neighbors first, and downplay your "weird obsession" as much as possible until you know them. Cultivate friends who will be on your side if you should meet up with a really bad apple later. Maybe your new neighbors will even warn you if there is a problem neighbor to beware of. Better safe than sorry!
>>
>>I believe there was a long thread on the bp forum about Don and Colette Sutherland and how the town they wanted to move into gave them all kinds of problems, forcing them to abandon their plans and go elsewhere. They were a big operation compared to what you do, but still...don't ever underestimate the emotions of the uninformed masses, lol! Again, better safe than sorry!
>>
>>Good luck!
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

I do worry as my vehicle has my business name all over it, its parked in the drive way or in front at the street every day, all day. I just purchased my first home, been in it 5 days now, its very exciting but for sure I looked over my shoulder every time I carried a cage into my new snake room.
Foot Hill Reptiles

Congrats on the home. True you can't hide your vehicle. But you have to think like your neighbors. They don't know what you have. A moderate colubrid collection? Maybe. No idea and they speculate? Probable. You want to put those extreme type people that think you have venomous alligators. Or snakes that hunt people.

I actually enjoy someone that comes in our shop and might not realize what we do. Then SLOWLY educate them. It's amazing how many people "reptile haters" like and even learn to love a leopard lizard or beardie. Lizards always seem to be easier for people.

People are just ignorant on different topics. Reptiles have a bad rap. You find yourself having fun educating your neighbors.

And I really hope this is the scenario. Herps have become a HUGE pet market compared to years past. use that to your advantage.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Well, we've discussed pulling the van into the garage at night, but it will still be visible driving down the street. The house was my mom's old house and she told me that one neighbor in the cul-de-sac always complained about my mom's yard (live oaks with little grass), and the next door neighbor is a control freak who tried to stop the new church behind everyone from doing work on the property when the church purchased a vacant house/lot.

Now, my mom likes to be dramatic, so who really knows. The renting neighbor on the other side of us saw the van in the driveway as we were working on the vacant house and asked about the company. My husband just said we had small snakes and lizards. We do actually have a Burmese and a gator, but they aren't against city code. I read my code and I think I'm limited to a total of five domesticated animals of any assortment per acre, including nonvenomous reptiles (no venomous reptiles allowed). Hmmm. I'll have to take the wait and see approach, I guess. Thanks for all the feedback, guys.

repainting the van, and just putting magnetic signs on it while out in town? I know the neighbors have already seen it, but if it "disappears", they will tend to forget it after a while. But if it is always "in their face", it may rub somebody the wrong way after a while. Although it is not logical, it sometimes works out that a normally friendly (or at least indifferent) person may turn curmudgeon if something bad happens to him / her, such as losing a job, spouse, health problem, etc. If your animals were a small and unimportant annoyance before, such a setback could put that neighbor in a mood for vengeance on anyone or anything that is handy. And if unemployed (becoming more common every day, unfortunately), they may have time on their hands to look for problems. Sad, but sometimes true. Don't be the recipient of such problems if you can avoid it.

Whenever I am talking to non-herpers about my business, I always downplay snakes. People in general are more accepting of lizards, turtles, etc, than snakes. So if asked, I may say I keep "small pet shop type reptiles", and if pressed, I may say "little pet lizards and snakes like you find at the local pet shop" or something similar. You can always be more specific later to those who need to know more. That whole thing about "an ounce of prevention..." can really apply when dealing with the general public.