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Dragon Stack

crud Nov 21, 2008 08:50 PM

My 2 juvies and 1 adult dragon are now properly housed in stacked cages of adequate proportion (48"x24"x17". I'm afraid that I made the mistake of keeping the 2 young'uns together in the same undersized tank for too long and they are undersized for their age, but healthy and no injuries. I like this setup (see pic).

Basking temps on the river rocks (surface readings) are 105-110 F for the 4&5 month old juvies and 102 max for the adult as measured by heat gun. I've been studying the controversy, and when I try higher temps they stay to the perimeter. Even at these temps they will bask with mouths open at the hot spots for minimal time periods. I'd still like to provide them even higher temps, up to 130 for when they need it. You may see by the pic that on this type cage the basking well screen is only about 9" from the bottom of the cage. This makes creating proper gradient a bit tricky in so low a habitat. I am getting cool sides of 77-82 F now that the weather and ambient room temps have cooled.

Also, I am concerned that the Reptisun 10 UVB linear 18" strips (2 per cage) are located at the fronts of the cages, and I'm thinking I may need more UVB at the backs of these. You can't see them here, but they are sitting on screen, riveted to the inset molded ceiling, and at 2" higher than the top door tracks. Do I need more UVB?

My purpose here is not to advertise for the cage supplier, but you can probably guess, so just visit their web site and you'll see the diagram.

The substrate is Walmart Duck brand shelf liner, which I like for the easy clean, good traction properties. I am more interested in the health and comfort of my dragons, then how "natural and pretty" it looks to me.

I have invested in Herpstat ND Proportional Thermostats for each habitat, which are still in their boxes, and would like some advice on how to best put these to use in regulating basking temps? I am building new basking platforms with slate covered plywood for uniformity, comfort and temp gradients, but with such a low basking well an inch difference in height will probably make a large temp swing, right? So will a 2 level platform 1" difference in height provide enough variant? Flood bulb strength will be of little relevance (so long as it's a bit overpowered)once I figure out how to position the stat probes,so long as I can design it such that they won't lay on the probes.

Please, no worries about lack of water dish, etc. This shot was made during a cleaning. Crickets are served in a tub corral, so that I don't have to chase the leftovers in this stack every day.

I thought that I could figure this all out on my own. I am now doubting my reasoning skills and asking for the help and advice of the experts here. My BD's are important to me and I do not want any harm to come to them. Thanks.

Replies (13)

MimC85 Nov 21, 2008 08:55 PM

I know you arent trying to advertise the tanks - but i LOVE those tanks!!!! Who are they by? I might be interested in investing in some....
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1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

crud Nov 21, 2008 09:23 PM

They are from Showcase Cages. Many plusses and a few minuses. I am happy overall, so long as I can solve these problems, which are pretty minor in scope of the vast intellectual resources here.

kmartin311 Nov 24, 2008 08:54 AM

Nice cages Crud! I still owe you a picture of my 5x2x2 showcase set-up. Should be soon as I got my new camera a few days ago.

I too had the same worries about my dragons not getting enough UVB some time ago. There are definately a few flaws with the design but these are still nice cages. The fixture well is claimed to "front-light" the entire tank but it really does not cover the rear areas. I have tested. The aluminum screen is really thick and robs probably half of the usable UVB. What you can do is mount your fixtures under the aluminum screen with screws. This way you lower the beam by about 2-3" and there is nothing to block or filter the lamps intensity. You can even mount them with a slight angle to fire more-centered throughout the cage.

I had an entirely different problem with my cage and humidity affecting the poly material. Never held it's true shape and the glass doors could literally fall right out of the track. Be careful of this when spring/summer hits in your area Crud.

BDlvr probably has the most practical of all cage designs for dragons. He is also one of the most intelligent herpers I can identify in this forum community. Stick with him and you'll be just fine.

kmartin311@gmail.com

crud Nov 21, 2008 10:13 PM

Correction: height is 18"

PHLdyPayne Nov 22, 2008 03:35 AM

18" is rather short for a four foot cage. If the recessed slot for the UVB light allows it I would replace with a three foot fixture. Being a bit to the front of the cage shouldn't be an issue, as the UVB comes down in a cone shape from the bulb.

From what I can see in your cages, I suggest creating much larger basking areas...to give your dragons much greater range to bask.
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PHLdyPayne

crud Nov 22, 2008 08:23 AM

Thanks. With 2 18" strips per cage it's about the same thing. I definitely agree on increasing the basking area and I'm building the new ones with tiles on 2 level plywood. All 3 basking platforms will be identical, easy to remove and clean. The short throw distance is a limitation for the basking lights, but I will overcome it with some creativity. If these cages were 6" higher they would be nearly ideal, but I like the design overall.

BDlvr Nov 22, 2008 08:46 AM

I don't want to hurt your feelings but personally I don't like their cages. Anyway, my suggestion would be to remove the screen on the UVB slot. It is dramatically cutting down on the UVB getting to your dragon. Then I would get the longest straight tube that will fit and get it so the bulb is lower and inside the cage. Right now what UVB is passing through the screen is only going straight down along the front of the cage. If the bulb were lower you should get usable UVB from a Zoo Med 10.0 throughout most of the cage.

My other gripe with the cages is the recess for the basking bulb and have discussed this problem with them. There is just too little space below the bulb to have much if anything for a raised basking site. They should make their 4x2's 24" tall not 18. You'll just have to experiment to find what is the best compromise.

I use individual Helix proportional thermostats in all my enclosures. You will not be able to control the basking temp with a thermostat. You will have to control the high side ambient and then find the right bulb that gives you the correct basking temp. when the ambient is at the setting. My probes are at basking height on the hot side of the cage. I have to change bulbs and increase/decrease venting as the ambient in the room changes with the seasons.

crud Nov 22, 2008 09:47 AM

You have verbalized my concerns well. The dragons' feelings are all that's important here. What if I hang a 36" strip light inside the cage, between the bask lamp well and the front strip light well. I can then use the screened strip light well in front for adjustable venting? I could even hang an additional 18" strip if needed in the rear corner? I'll post a pic of the new basking platforms soon. I like your tips on thermostat setup, too.

BDlvr Nov 22, 2008 10:05 AM

It's really tough for me to say. A Zoo Med 10.0 give UVB to 20". When I designed mine I worked it out so the all areas of the cage are a direct line to the bulb of less than 20". The basking area should be closer.

Since I've never used one of their cages it's tough to guess how the temps are working out, warm vs. cool side. I like mine vented from the front and above the glass. It give a very good range of temps.

Your really going to have to experiment. It took me a year or so to get everything to where I like it. My adult basking temps are from 105-110. I disagree with Robyn that advocates 130. I have tested higher temps over the years and found the 105-110 to be the correct range.

MimC85 Nov 22, 2008 10:12 AM

Hey BDLvr - what kind of tanks are those? They are excellent...i like the height. Did you make them yourself or buy them?
-----
1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

BDlvr Nov 22, 2008 06:13 PM

I made them. The center column is 5' x 3.5' x 2' tall and the outside columns are 4' x 3.5' x 2' tall.

BDlvr Nov 22, 2008 06:14 PM

Oops, Thanks. lol.

MimC85 Nov 22, 2008 07:25 PM

Congrats - they are very nice, i wish i was that handy!
-----
1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

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