Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Im pretty new to lizards...Have had snakes for years...I recently bought my girlfriend two juvenile leopard geckos a few months ago...Today the female was very lethargic and just wasnt moving around too well...My girlfriend took her out and was holding her and the gecko pooped blood on her hand...a big goop of blood...At that point we flipped her over and can clearly see more spots of blood in her stomach...She doesn't look too good and I don't know how much longer she has...My initial though is that she ate a mealworm without killing it and it bit up her insides....ANY OPINIONS ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! Please help...

Well first off - ditch the mealworm theory That is a myth.

Could you give us more details about your set up...

- How old are the lizards?
- Are they housed together?
- What size tank are they in?
- What is the substrate?
- How are you heating the tank?
- What are the temps in the tank, on the floor on the hot side?
- How are the temps meausured? Digital thermometer? Dial thermometer? etc?
- How many hides do you have?
- What do the Leos eat?
- What supplements do you use? How often?
- How is the other leo doing?
- The Leo that pooped blood - any other signs? Is the appetite good? Is she still moving around at all? vomiting? straining to defecate? etc?

Several things come to mind - however without more info its impossible to say. Some things that come to mind are: heavy parasite load, impaction, extreme stress...

First things first...this leo needs to see a reptile vet asap. check www.herpvetconnection.com and www.arav.org for reptile vets in the area....if that doesnt give you any names...call local clinics and find out where they refer their reptile cases too. Sometimes ou have to drive quite a wways for a good herp vet, but its worth it. If she is as poorly as you say then she needs to see a vet tomorrow.

If the Leos are housed together, separate them immediately. The stress of the two being housed together could have been what caused all of this, or it could be a secondary factor that is compounding the issue - either way, they need to be separated.

If you are using a loose substrate, such as sand, calci-sand, walnut shell, wood shavings, gravel, etc then impaction is a higher concern. If substrate is logdeged in the intestine it could have caused bleeding. Other symptoms of impaction are often straining to defecate, anorexia, lethargy. If it is impaction and it is bad enough to cause bloody stool then she needs to see a vet and have x-rays done...surgery is sometimes needed if the impactions are bad enough. Soaking in warm water, good belly temps (a heat pad heating the bottom of the tank to 88-92 degrees) will help to move the impaction along. Inadequate supplementation can also contribute to impaction - low calcium causes poor muscle contraction, and poor G.I motility - rectifying the supplementation deficit can aid in the recovery. Improper feeding can also lead to impaction - feeder insects that are too large will contribute to impaction. Feeder insects that are larger than the space between the Leos eyes should not be fed.

Parasites can cause bloody stool, a fecal exam can be done to rule out or diagnose parasites.

There could be so many things going on with this Leo...please provide the above information, this will help. Separate the Leos if they are not already separated. Most importantly, please call a reptile vet first thing in the morning and get her to the vet as soon as they will see you. Explain the severity of the situation and they will likely rush you in.

Hope this helps.
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1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

I am planning to take her to the vet in the morning...my only concern is that it's Saturday and most clinics aren't going to be open...No emergency clinic in the area deals with reptiles...I know of a great vet that treated my Blood Python for an RI...but again, Im thinking they wont be open.

I feed her mealworms...I don't think they are too big, I was feeding them the smallest ones but the two of them would gobble down 30 of them in no time...so I got the next size up. We've had them for about two months so Im guessing theyre around the 3 months old...The male is doing fine...She isn't moving much but seems to have short bursts of energy every few minutes if youre holding her...This isn't just bloody poop...she literally pooped blood...just blood...and by the looks of things from underneath there is more to come. We do use calci-sand but Ive been told that they usually don't have problems with impaction when using calci-sand...besides theres no reason she would have ingested any because all of the mealworms they eat are in a feeding bowl with a little bit of calcium on the bottom and all of the worms are dusted in a bag of calcium before we put them in to feed...We don't use an under-tank heater because I've heard that there is risks of a fire being started and seeing how the geckos are housed in my girlfriends room...Id rather not take the risk. We use red UV light that only creates heat but no light...The cage stays consistently between 82 and 86 degrees...we just use the little plastic temp. gauges from petco (i know petco sucks but thats all weve got here)...I will make sure they get separated in the morning because she's sleeping right now and im not going to be able to get into contact with her...They have two hides...they both spend almost all of their time in the same bigger hide...They always have fresh water supplied...Again the male is doing perfectly fine...Hope you can come to more of a conclusion from all of that...Thanks

Oh and the tank is a 10 gallon...they are only a few months old so I think there is plenty of room.

Well - your best bet will still be to get to the vet, of course - but there are a few other basic husbandry concerns to address.

Given the info that you have provided the biggest thing on the list currently would be impaction. Despite what you may have heard, calci-sand is well known for causing impaction. Even though you are feeding from the bowl, Leos are known for tasting their environment and ingesting peices of substrate. Young Leos are more prone to impaction than adults as they have more delicate G.I symtpoms. I am not a vet, this is obviously not a diagnosis - but it may be the problem. Either way, ditch the calci-sand. For young Leos all loose substrate is risky, your best options are paper towels, non adhesive shelf liner, tiles, or reptile carpet.

The stress of having the two housed togeher is undoubtly contributing to the issues.

The temps are also too low, which is likely contributing to the issue. If it is an impaction, impaction is an issue that is usually caused by multiple factors...its not JUST the substrate...but the substrate plus inadequate temps, or supplementations, or feeder insects, or stress etc etc. If its not impaction, then the low temps may well be contributing to the overall poor health.

In this case the temps are too low - warm side temp on the substrate floor should be 88-92 degrees. The best way to heat Leopard Geckos is using an undertank heater, as this delivers heat directly to the Leos belly - which is what they need for proper health and digestion. If it is impation (which can be confirmed or ruled out at the vet) then a heat pad will definately be needed as direct belly heat will also help to pass impaction. The risk of fire with heat pads is EXTREMELY low...TONS of reptile keepers use them, and have been using them for years and years with no issues. As long as you use them as directed, and use a thermostat or dimmer to control the heat output (which is also needed to prevent the belly temps from getting too hot - heat pads will often heat to over 100 degrees if left uncontrolled. I personally use plug in lamp dimmers - available at home depot - to control this) then you will not have a problem.

The thermometers you are using are extremely inacurate, and are also measuring the wrong area of temps. For Leos, you need to know the temps on the floor - not up on the glass. Digital themrometers with probes are the most acurate way to do this. You can purchase these at wal mart, home depot, and petco. Tape the probe down to the warm side of the tank and you will get an acurate measurement of the temps. As stated before, these temps should be 88-92 degrees.

If she is defecating straight blood then things are very serious. Most vet clinics are open for a few hours on saturday, if you can find one that treats reptiles and you explain the situation they should be able to see you.

Overall, you will want to adjust and correct some of your husbandry issues...

- Separate the Leos
- Change the substrate
- If impaction is the issue, defiantely use an undertank heater - and if not then still consider it, if you cannot get the floor temps up with the heat bulb

If you cant get her to the vet tomorrow then try to keep her going through the weekend with supportive care. Soaking her daily, or a couple times a day to help maintain hydration and aid in passing any possible impaction. Keep her separated and make sure she has an undertank heater, controlled with a dimmer with adequate belly temps to reduce stress and also aid in fixing any possible impaction.

Is she strainging to defecate at all, since passing the blood??

Good luck with your little girl - keep us posted, i hope she pulls through!
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1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

Alright thank you for all of your help...I will do everything possible...

She hasn't defecated since the blood came out...but when it came out she didn't seem to strain at all...My girlfriend kind of just looked at her hand and there was blood...

How do the dimmers work? You just connect the UTH and keep adjusting it until the temp is right?

Thanks.

Yes you just plug the dimmer into the outlet and plug the heat pad into the dimmer - there is a little "dial" that you can use to adjust the temps up and down - by reading the temps off the digital thermometer you can adjust as needed.

Keep us posted on how it goes - i hope it goes well
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1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

She passed before the morning came...thanks for your help...

Im so sorry....I suspect it was a really bad impaction, for what its worth - if she had reached the vet she probably would have passed anyway, being that she was so far along

Watch the male to make sure he is defecating normally. If he is not showing any signs and you make the necessary husbandry changes then it is likely he will not have the same issue.

Sorry again
-----
1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

Thanks...I changed to carpet for now just in case...until he gets a little bigger.