Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi guys,sorry it's been so long.
My 3rd batch of hatchlings are dying one by one.
There were no problems whatsoever with my first 2 batches but i'm really confused as to what is happening. They're 3 weeks old and all seemed to be doing well until i got up one morning to find one dead,no visible wounds or markings on it and i just put it down to 'one of those things'
Then a few days later,i noticed another one that looked really weak,couldn't hold it's head up,eyes closed,this one had a series of tiny dots under it's chin that almost looked like teeth marks off another baby,this baby managed to tuck itself away at night and come out to bask in the morning,but a couple of days later,it died.
A day later,i had another with exactly the same symptons,this one died last night and it had like a dark green circle marking on its underside. I tried putting them in a bit of warm water,dripping water on their noses but to no avail.
Now this morning,i have yet another baby with the same symptons!
I've disinfected all the viv this morning and put the poorly baby on it's own but i'm so confused as to why this is happening.
I'm hoping someone could perhaps shed some light?
Apologies for the long post,but i wanted to be as detailed as i could.
Shelley x
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Rubyshell

I know that you are probably familiar with other members here, but since I don't know how your setup is, can you answer a few questions?
What kind of substrate do you have them on?
What are your temps, basking and ambient, and how are you measuring them?
What sized and what kind of prey are you feeding?
Do you dust the prey w/ calcium?
Are you providing water or misting the enclosure?

They're on kitchen roll as substrate although i have took that out as it's easier to wipe the faeces up straight away.
My temps are fine,88 in the cool end and basking spot of about 110-120 they're feeding on size 3 crickets which are probably a bit too small for them now.
I haven't done anything different with these babies compared to the others that i have bred successfully in the past two years which is why i'm so confused.
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Rubyshell

Forgot to add,feeder foods are gut loaded and dusted and they have a shallow bowl of water in with them.
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Rubyshell

Well, your setup sounds fine. I hope Eve will see your post.

I'm sorry they are dieing.

Hi Shelly, so sorry to hear about the babys, sad! This could be so many darn things it is hard to tell without seeing the kids, also I'm not a vet, but just having collareds through the years , there would be a ton of things I would ask you.

First the tiny red dots on thier chins , and dark greenish looking marks on their tummys could indicate some sort of bacterial infection , also internally, called septicemia, - infection of the blood. Sometimes you will see what looks like bruise marks on the underside.

Also I would say this.... this is the third clutch, I always tell people, sometimes by the time the momma is on her 3d , 4th clutch she is deficient of calcium and the hatchlings do not get as well nourished in my opinion as the first one or two, which leads to weakened immune systems/ calcium deficiencies.

Are any of your older lizards weak/ sickly, have any kind of marks?

Do you leave crickets in the babys tanks at night? Were their insects fed to the older lizards as well? Could they have been contaminated in anyway, sprays???? Something??? That could have caused poisoning ?

Have you used anything, such as sprays, cleaners in their tanks, room, that were different?

When things like this happen you have to go over everything and it's a process of elimination.

I'm terribly sorry you have lost them, but it is important you figure this out IF possible, so it never happens again. SAD !

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PHEve / Eve

Hi Eve,all my older lizards are fine,no marks or lethargy.
These babies are kept in a tank away from the other hatchlings and the others have different sized crix to these. i had wondered if it was something to do with the crickets.
i have two sets of babies of the same age but different mothers,(one was a first clutch out of a first time mom)in together and have lost 2 babies out of one clutch and 1 out the other.
I've offered some water on a syringe today and they all lapped it up including the ill one,so now i'm wondering if they were dehydrated and if so,would that result in these symptons?
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Rubyshell

Dehydration can cause impaction, and that could account for the darkened belly. You might get some pedialyte and give them a little of that just to boost their electrolytes. A little soy yogurt would also help with that and give them some probiotics in case it is an intestinal issue of some kind. Sometimes dehydration can also throw the good flora balance off in their intestines.

Perhaps a bath in room temperature water might help and watch them to see if they drink up the water.

Good luck and I'm sorry for your losses.

Ok so now i'm thinking it isn't dehydration.
The baby has just died and this one too has a green spot on its belly that wasn't there an hour ago.
It also looks like i have another baby going downhill.
This is so frustrating and i feel so helpless
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Rubyshell

You said that your ambient temps are 88? Your temps seem a little high. Can you get the ambient temps down to the 80 degree range? I find that my collareds stress and dehydrate when the basking goes much beyond 110 in the smaller tanks because it pushes the ambient temps into the upper 80s low 90s. It might be worth a shot. Beyond that, it does sound like a bacterial infection. Do you have a good vet? They might need antibiotics.

I still have to think more on hte lines of some sort of bacterial /viral infection going on and infecting them all. I would certainly make sure you wash your hands well before going from adult tanks to kids or visa-versa.
It may be an adult that is some sort of carrier of something , you just do not know fo rsure except something is wiping the kids out. If it were me for now , I would keep everything sanatized as best as you can. Do not mix furniture/bowls, ect... from one tank to another, wash after each time you touch anyone.

Sounds catchy, atleast with the kids, so be cautious. A qualified Vet could indeed tell you more, but probably will have to do some tests/ or even have a baby that died tested.
If it is a poisoning of the blood / internal problems, from infection you would have to find out what started it all.

There are many virus's that can cause sudden death after lethargy so on. Adenoviruses which have been seen in bearded dragons can be like that. Coccidia , so many things. Even mites from the adults are vectors of virus. Like I said one of the dead babys may be able to tell the story if you have it tested.

Keep everyone seperated as much as possible from the infected kids. And WASH well going from tank to tank / lizard to lizard. Invest in some disposable gloves you cna wear while this is going on, thats what I have done when not sure. Keep us updated wish there was more we could do to help.
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PHEve / Eve

Eve,i too feel this has got to be an infection of some sort,i've still got the baby that died today and i'm gonna call round the vets tomorrow to see if i can get a post mortem done,i think it would be for the best,if not to save the remainder,it would be for future reference.
I have been washing well and using a hand sanitiser after touching them.
You have helped more than you know already,if only to prevent my insanity as this is a totally frustrating time.
I will keep you posted on the results.
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Rubyshell