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There's a local reptile show that I usually try to attend as a vendor. What do you think of displaying a decent sized picture - say 8" X 10" - on the table showing people just how big a burm gets (even with moderate feeding)? Would this be out of line in regards to vendors selling burms or do you think it'd be okay? I ask because I hate seeing people get these animals because they're so 'cute' when they buy the babies - only to have it turn into a very large animal...if it makes it that long. Do you think displaying a picture would even make enough of a difference to the average impulse buyer of burms or would it simply annoy those breeders/dealers selling burms? This is just something that's been rattling around in my brain for a while now. I see more and more large snakes (especially burms) in the local papers and rescue groups lately and I'm big on educating people about the animals I keep and about making responsible decisions for both owner and animal. In todays market where a normal phase burm can be had for $30-$40, I'd like to help others consider what they're really getting into...or is all this just spitting into the wind?

Raven...who's pondering 'out loud'.

Hi Raven, personally I think it's a good idea. There may be some vendors who may not agree to it because their just in it for the money and don't care about the future of their snakes but I would think the reputable breeders/vendors wouldn't have a problem with it. Unfortunately there will still be some people that wouldn't get the idea and still make that impulse buy but even if it made one person think twice about what their getting themselves into, it would be worth it. How about bringing an actual full grown burm to the show? J/K, kinda! This would really be a wake up call although I know it would be impractical. Take care, Scott.
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Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

"In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws.
But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
—Martin Luther King Jr

When we bring our "Big Bertha" to a reptile expo, that usually is enough to change people's minds in getting a burm...there's just something that a picture cannot accomplish (unless you have some pics of burms feeding on people!). But seriously, if you feel a picture would work, I say go for it. I personally am not necessarily out to dissuade people from getting a burm; just the contrary. What I do want people to do is to fully understand what they are getting themselves into and how to responsibly keep a burmese python (it can be done). They need to educated so that they can make an educated decision. For those who say "that's a lot bigger than I expected", steering them into a different direction (smaller species of burm) is well deserved.

I had also thought about taking Baby in person...but that's a lot of snake for a fairly small booth space and only me manning said booth. In addition to that, I *really* do not want to bring home mites, or anything else, on her. I thought perhaps a picture, with me in it for size comparison, might help people to think about what they're getting into. She's roughly 13' in length and only 4-5 years old. She's been fed moderately, roughly once per month since my friend got her 1 to 1 1/2 years ago, though we don't know how she was 'really' fed before hand - just what the person claimed. She has good body weight (translate HEAVY! lol) and muscle tone...though she's far from what I'd call active, even when she's taken out of her cage. I'm not so much against people buying burms (after all, this will be my 2nd) as I am against them getting the 'cute little snake' with no forethought that it will not be little for long. People who KNOW what they're getting into and are willing to commit to it are one thing, I just don't think burms - or any animal - should be purchased on impulse or without at least some minimal research on adult size, caging requirements, temperature and prey requirements, etc.

Part of what started this train of thought was a show I went to earlier this year where normal burms were $35 each. Granted those prices were a great deal for a fairly easily produced snake, the problem was that particular vendor didn't seem inclined to let purchasers know what they were getting into for the long haul...or heck, for the short term with the way these beauties can grow. Add to that the fact that a small local rescue has 3 burms, I've seen at least 2-3 in the local trading post just over the last couple of months, plus the ones I've heard of by word of mouth through friends, and viola! Raven has issues. lol To be fair, I've seen more vendors give good information than bad, but I've also seen a number who don't take the time to talk to new owners and tell them what to expect. I was just figuring that if one person saw a picture of a young adult burm - who might otherwise make an impulsive buy - it might give them the opportunity to stop and think about what they're getting into before they actually do it.

Thanks to you both for the input and commentary. I'm by no means someone who wants to see these beauties outlawed, just someone with concerns for their best interests at heart. Shoot, I go through the whole speil about adult size, etc. when I sell one of the baby boas I produce, much less something that's as large as a burm.

Raven

I've watched people, some of whom I regretably introduced into the world of "herp shows" buy retics, burms,gators, & other potentialy dangerous herps just b/c they are just that. I watched one guy buy & resell these constrictors to people who knew nothing about what they were getting into. The real problem though is vendors should see if the prospective buyer is aware of the care needs of these creatures. I mean ball pythons are just as common but don't get as large however the present thier own (though not as deadly problems). The breeders should stop breeding them personally. Just like as metioned in other forums unfortunately there are always going to be "throw away herps" (common & cheap). Hey if you're Raven from Pa give me an email I'm up for the education of the masses. I have 2 burms that I took in, one even being a labrythin, that you're welcome to use. The main thing education does is at least the person knows what they're getting into. It is our responsibility to keep the hobby alive by not letting avoidable incidents happen. The more they do the more laws will be passed. 10yrs. from now, at this rate, albino retics will be $100.00 then we'll be overrun w/ those too provided all large snakes aren't banned by then. Breeders/&vendors need to think long term in means that if the sell this snake to someone & it in turn cause a traumatic incident that gets more laws passed then it only hurts their business in the long run. So please be responsible to who you sell too. Ask them if they know how big the animal gets the food it will eventually need. On the positive(in an ironic sense) side most of the snakes die b/c the person doesn't know how to care for it. You don't know how many almost heated discussions I get into in pet stores over people whos' snakes only eat live food but wonder why the food ate the snake, or why the snake wants to eat them.

Nope, not Raven from PA but Raven from VA.

We don't see the gators sold around here, but plenty of burms, retics and rock pythons...at least as far as the truly BIG guys go. Occassionally I see an anaconda offered, but that isn't often. As I mentioned above, I don't see so much misinformation as lack of providing information at all. So often it seems that if the person has the money, they get the animal, no questions asked. I went to the Bristol, VA show in June and watched a number or people buy venemous snakes. The vast majority of the vendors made sure that the people knew what they were getting, but there were still a few vendors that simply took the money without even asking if the person had venemous experience or a proper setup for the animal they were buying. Uh, hand raised? SHOULDN'T that be the first question when selling fully venemous and completely deadly animals? Yeah, I know, I know. I'm preaching to the choir here...I just seem to run with this when I get started. lol

I've thought about starting an educational program but haven't really persued it because of time constraints. I'm self-employed and have no employees at the moment...meaning I'm tied to my office at least 8-9 hours a day. Should any sizeable amount of free time develope, I will look into it more seriously. I really feel that education is the key to keeping these animals, be it a common corn snake or one of these behemoths of the snake world. The more people learn, I think the less they rely on the misconceptions about snakes in general that are passed around. Just in my personal life (what there is of it anyway! lol), I try to educate people about my obsession...I mean hobby. Just within my small social circle I've seen a number of my friends' outlooks on snakes get redifined. However small, it's a start.

Raven

That or have a giant live burmese at the same table where babies are being sold. Nobody should ever be sold a burm or tic or rock without being full aware of what this snake will become. If a 16 foot 200 pound female on display seems too much for a potential customer, then they have no business buying a baby female. A large male (13 foot, 80 pounds) should also be on display. If this is still too much for the potential customer, then a male is out too.

Ironically, there is a small percentage of emerging herpers at any given time that would be more inclined to purchase the snake knowing it can get so big. How do I know this? Because that is how I was as a boy. The bigger the better was what I wanted. If I read that a snake exceeded 15 feet, I wanted it oh-so-badly. That was how it went, and here I am now, a breeder of mainly large species. So it has multiple purposes to display grossly huge "example snakes" at one's table.

Just one humble breeders' opinion.

>>There's a local reptile show that I usually try to attend as a vendor. What do you think of displaying a decent sized picture - say 8" X 10" - on the table showing people just how big a burm gets (even with moderate feeding)? Would this be out of line in regards to vendors selling burms or do you think it'd be okay? I ask because I hate seeing people get these animals because they're so 'cute' when they buy the babies - only to have it turn into a very large animal...if it makes it that long. Do you think displaying a picture would even make enough of a difference to the average impulse buyer of burms or would it simply annoy those breeders/dealers selling burms? This is just something that's been rattling around in my brain for a while now. I see more and more large snakes (especially burms) in the local papers and rescue groups lately and I'm big on educating people about the animals I keep and about making responsible decisions for both owner and animal. In todays market where a normal phase burm can be had for $30-$40, I'd like to help others consider what they're really getting into...or is all this just spitting into the wind?
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>>Raven...who's pondering 'out loud'.
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True "power" is not to be found in social or economic placement or stature, which are merely illusory, finite, frail and brief.
True power is to be found in one's sheer will and personal determination to achieve one's goals at ANY cost and at ANY sacrifice.

I'm glad that everyone seems to think this idea is okay. I'm really not out to anger those selling the burmese pythons but I want people to stop and think about what they are going to have in just a few short years. I give the whole size and care speech to everyone buying a boa from me. I've also talked to a number of people at the shows who didn't buy a snake from me but found that I would just talk with them and give them straight answers on size, longevity and general requirements. Snakes are one of my passions (no news flash to those here) and I love to talk about them, so it's hardly a chore to me. lol

On the big snake desire, my very first snake was a boa (still have him), even though I knew he'd reach 7 or 8 feet in length. It's only recently that I've gotten into the smaller snakes - 4 corns, 2 Solomon Island ground boas, and a Santa Isabel ground boa. Just about everybody else in my collection will hit at least 7 feet (Bci, Dumerils and carpet pythons in addition to my albino burm and this normal I'm getting). For me it wasn't so much that they would get big that I got them but that I loved the look and temperment of the species and the size didn't matter. I've gotten a number of comments about the variety of snakes that I keep in comparison to so many who keep only one or two species. What can I say, I like the variety.

Raven

>>There's a local reptile show that I usually try to attend as a vendor. What do you think of displaying a decent sized picture - say 8" X 10" - on the table showing people just how big a burm gets (even with moderate feeding)? Would this be out of line in regards to vendors selling burms or do you think it'd be okay? I ask because I hate seeing people get these animals because they're so 'cute' when they buy the babies - only to have it turn into a very large animal...if it makes it that long. Do you think displaying a picture would even make enough of a difference to the average impulse buyer of burms or would it simply annoy those breeders/dealers selling burms? This is just something that's been rattling around in my brain for a while now. I see more and more large snakes (especially burms) in the local papers and rescue groups lately and I'm big on educating people about the animals I keep and about making responsible decisions for both owner and animal. In todays market where a normal phase burm can be had for $30-$40, I'd like to help others consider what they're really getting into...or is all this just spitting into the wind?
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>>Raven...who's pondering 'out loud'.
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"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."