Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted this on another forum and got some good responses, but was curious to hear what more people think.....

I am curious of everyone's opinion here. At what degree of separation from it's origin does a line dilute to being something else? I am NOT speaking of morphs at all, but known lines of boas. For example, Red Group, Ivory, Pastel Dream, Harlequin, Inferno, et cetera....

If I buy a Red Group boa from East Bay Vivarium are all the babies I produce from that animal Red Group, or just the nice red ones? Are all of the babies that are produced from boas I produced in using the original animal from EBV going to be Red Group? Would your answer apply to all the examples of lines above? If not which one would you regard differently and why?

At some point, in my opnion, it just becomes a label of lineage. When is this? First litter removed from the source?

At what point does a line become one's own?

Just wondering about the grey areas. All thoughts appreciated.

Have fun.
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"Continuing to cling to the patterns you know, inhibits your ability to discover what you don't know." - Eric Allenbaugh

The name of a "line" mostly just helps label where a specific animals ancestry lies. That line can certainly be diluted. I guess technically, unless you did multiple inbreedings, almost everyone would dilute a bloodline. No other choice sort of. Many will buy one animal, that is perhaps, of exceptional quality and breed it to something else that doesn't have that same appearance at all. The resulting offspring will likely begin to loose much of the look of that original bloodline. Careful selective breeding with just the right animals can actually retain much, if not all of that look without inbreeding. This takes patience and a discerning eye.

On the other hand, the exception to that dilution result is this; If you have a mess of animals from one line you have more options. This is especially true if you have a bunch of animals from one line that you have out crossed and tried to refine those defining characteristics. Then you may actually be able to refine the look of that bloodline. At least the "look". No way to make subsequent generations "more" Red Group, for instance, than a previous generation was. However, you may be able to capitalize upon that particular "look", thereby in fact making those "Red Group" animals that retain that special look and maybe even enhance it.

Bottom line as I think back is this; Even though a guy might keep back a whole lot of animals from one line, he always wishes he still had more. At least one guy I know thinks that...
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Well,....

A Pastel, by any other name...., is still a "Pastel".

You can dilute it or totally outcross it. You can mix in a Hypo or drop a little BCC blood in there. Even if you end up with a more refined "look". It will never change the fact that it "originated" from a specific bloodline. Anyone can "claim" credit for creating a new look. Unfortunately, that new look would not have been possible without the genetics from the original animals. Even if a new refined better looking boa is created from existing bloodlines.... You really need to give credit where it's due.

You can name/label your new refined looking boas any way you wish. Even a first litter from the original bloodline. Just give the credit and tell where the new look came from. Unless, you just happen to put two random boas together, meaning no specific look or bloodline, and got something special. Then you proved out that something special. In that case... THE LINE IS AND ALWAYS WAS YOURS.

That way, your giving credit, and saying "look what I did" at the same time. Both sides are happy. At least, I'd think they're happy.

Of course, there is another side to it all. What if a "specific" line is soooooo diluted that it no longer resembles that original line. What if it hasn't been changed for the "better". What if people are randomly breeding and claiming credit for the bloodline. It's lost that original look. You know, that look that made it "special" in the first place. Still people might be selling them as a specific bloodline in hopes that "name" will also carry a higher dollar value.

Any trait can be.... "low end". What if a bloodline triat has been reduced to that "low end status??" Does it really deserve to be called --------. In my opinion, "probably not".

I also believe in giving credit where credit is due, when possible. But it's not alwlays that easy. Those "not so pretty" Red Groups, for example, are still carrying the genetic makeup of the parents. They may not be offered to the market as Red Groups, because they are not visually stunning enough, but they can still make pretty babies. So someone buying an "ugly" Red Group, without knowing it, "rediscovers" the line and calls it something else. I am sure there is more than one "named" line that share common origins. In the end, line names are merely "loose references", not hard facts.

In my opinion, if you know what line(s) your snakes come from, be a standup guy and let everyone know it's a "Peter's Pastel type B X Swedish Line Jungle". It may take a little more typing, but if you call it Mark's Crazy Red Aberrant Line without an explanation, you haven't been fair to the ones who came before.

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