Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone has experience with this species ? i hopefully will get an pair next month and cannot find much about this species. i have the book of gunther köhler but nothing more. everything would help concerning, temperature, feeding and housing them. thx a lot cheers martin

I doubt you a getting true alfredschmidti. Probably another type of ctenosaura, but not alfredschmidti.

why do you think so ? i have seen them on pics before and it´s shure they are alfredschmidti.

Mark.They are out there and particularly overseas just not that many.I hear Japanese are getting them from Europe so someone must be breeding them.We just don't see them here in the states.
Give him a chance to post pics first.
Not much info on them.But I imagine they are similar to defensors.Maybe tree dwellers?
You should get ahold of Guther Kohler maybe he could help you with at least the habitat and temperature requirements.
I hope he gets them.They maybe the only ones in the U.S.
Last time I googled the area.It looks like alot of the habitat is starting to become farm land.

ah,ok so you guys in the u.s don´t see this species quit offen ? i forgot to write, that i am from germany. here in europe this species is also quite unknown and very rare, but there are a few keepers. hopefully i get this pair next saturday.

@ mark m

still shure ?

Hey those are skinks.
Just kidding... looks pretty convincing. But I'm no expert.

Nice looking lizards! Glad you got them. Working on importing some defensor right now from Europe. You guys have a wealth of nice stuff there. In the past 3 years I was able to import C oedirhina and C. melanosterna. You Europeans keep up the good work! Maybe one day some will make it oveer here. Thanks again for the photos. Post more when you get time. Good luck with them. Tom

What a pud.

.

Damn, you bastard.
How the hell do you get these animals.. I'm searching for these and other small Ctenosaura species for centuries, but can't find any. I guess you got them from Chez or something?
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1.1.0 Ctenosaura melanosterna

so here the pics, as i promissed. regards martin

and another 2

Very cool. I had no idea they had them in Europe. Are these animals collected by Gunther or offspring from animals he collected? Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Gunther the only one to legally get these out of Guatemala? They are also found in Mexico, but not legal to collect or export unless one is in bed with the Mexican government with a scientific red tape collection permit and lots of $$$$. Anyway, very cool.

hi

no they are from another source outside germany. they are no cb. cheers martin

So I guess their Illegal? I allready think I know from which country they are. If I were you, I wouldn't open up at internet that you have this specie. Everybody is traceable, so if you don't watch out, you may have some unwanted visitors

At Mark, I contacted Gunther about smaller Ctenosaura species myself, but he doesn't have any Ctenosaura species in his collection anymore. I am looking for quinquecarinata and flavidorsalis myself, but I prefer not to buy freshly caught animals in some store. But I can't find any animals at the moment that are for sale. Therefore I contacted him if he knew some animals for sale, but he didn't.
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1.1.0 Ctenosaura melanosterna

I was thinking the exact same thing, but didn't want to say it.
That said, quinquecarinata are available mixed with some of flavidorsalis occasionally here in the US. Unfortunately, they are so inexpensive as wild caught adults, there really is no incentive to breed them and I am guilty of this also. Your only bet if you want this species is to get what is available (probably wild caught) and be the pioneer by being the first to breed them in Europe.

The breeding is also very much my goal. That's why I also like to have the flavidorsalis for example. I really love these lizards, their small but I have room for larger cages, this way they have plenty of room.

The quinquecarinata that I have now, are not for 100% sure quinquecarinata. I got the official determination papers, but it looks more like the oaxacana (but this should in fact not be able, because they aren't exported since 1980).

Got one question to you Mark about breeding, do you keep your couples in the same enclosure, or do you seperate them for a certain time a year? This I ask, because in nature, they normally don't live this near to eachother. I keep mine 1.1 now in a 120x60x140 enclosure, but they are going to get a bigger one in the near future.
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1.1.0 Ctenosaura melanosterna

ohhhhh, i´m frightend

so as i know, and i know it for shure. you need no documents or any other permissions for any kind of ctenosaura in europe/germany, so i have nothing to worry about. who do you think you are talking to?! i´m working with rare lizards since years and have a lot of rare monitor lizards for example. i´m no idiot who first, is not able to see the difference between alfredschmidt and any other ctenosaura ( markm ) and seconds, tells anybody he has an illegal animal! so think about the nonsence you are writing before posting it!

Before you go all crazy, it's just a point which we like you to make aware off. Ctenosaura species are under a strict law in the country of origin. In fact, the Ctenosaura species are even above the CITES law! I got this information from someone who is VERY well known in the Ctenosaura species world.

Animals that were in Europe before the whole status of the Ctenosaura complex was known, are legal and may be kept by the owners. All animals that are brought in now, are legal and it's prohibited to take care of these animals.

There are even cases of people in Germany who got defensor (offcourse these were also illegal, while they are prohibited to keep), Mexico demanded these back and the owners had to give their animals back to Mexico.
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1.1.0 Ctenosaura melanosterna

what a complet nonsense. i don´t know who you asked. but i know severeal keepers of defensor and alfredschmidti and they all got imported ones. i don´t say anything against the fact, that they are under strict law in mexico! but in the rest of the world, they are not! there is ( !!!!) no law that protects them outside mexico! i checked it with my administration that checks all my appendix a and b animals and there is no problem in keeping them! also the story that Mexico demanded them back and the owner has to give them back is completly trash. how should they prove that they are illegal, when there is no need to have documents for them. so once again. think about the nonsence you are writing!

Well, I'm personal very interested in knowing who else keep defensor and alfredschmidti. I have never heard of it. Or at least from which country these people are. I guess, if it's true, that they are all from Chez Republic or something, while they keep there alot of imported animals which you don't see anywhere else in the world.

I believe that these animals are illegal, while they aren't allowed to be exported from the country of origin. So each animal that is outside the country of origin, is illegal, while they can't be shipped from there legally.

By the way, I don't really like the way you are typing. Stay a bit more friendly, while this is a very interesting discussion from which we could all learn.

These questions/remarks aren't against you as a person, but as how I/we think about how the legislation is regarding to these animals.

And now you have them, it would offcourse be great if you are able to breed with them!
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1.1.0 Ctenosaura melanosterna

Easy there Buckwheat. No one is saying you smuggled these lizards or you yourself is doing anything illegal, just that if these lizards (or the ancestors of these lizards) were collected in Mexico after 1980-85ish without a scientific collection permit issued by the government of Mexico, then, they were probably illegally smuggled out of that country, but that is not your problem. You are just the benefiter of this situation. That said, they are here now and cannot be returned. So, since keeping them in europe is "not" illegal, you might as well make the best of what you have and try to breed them. So enjoy what you have and make good use of them. As far as the Mexican government demanding that individuals send thier lizards back is a little far fetched. There would be no way for Mexico to enforce that and the logistics of sending live animals half way around the world to a thid world country that would not have a clue about what part of the country they came from.

my palearis I have purchased over the last couple years and mail them back to Guatamala. LOL. That is a little far fetched Willum. Do you have any idea of the risk envolved in doing something like this?
Greets
Tom

Good point, all the palearis that came in a year ago to the wholesalers were of smuggled origin. They are here now and won't be going back to guatemala so those that have them should make good use of the new genetics on hand.

Well, let me say one thing. One of my good connections is involved in the whole Ctenosaura species stuff (all those world wide organisations, IUCN, CITES etc etc).. He told me (i've read his message just 5 min ago) that indeed Mexico did demanded some Ctenosaura alfredschmidti back. The animals went back to Mexico and were destroyed there, because of possible diseases/parasites etc. The German owner got a big fine for it.

This person is in contact with the CITES organisation and at the moment they are trying to bring in several (and I mean all) Ctenosaura species under trade-prohibitation.

Mexico set up their own very strict rules, and none of the animals are allowed to be exported out of the country. Each animal out of the country is illegal, while they can't be exported.

And Tgreb, they are trying to get the palearis indeed also on the trade-prohibitation
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1.1.0 Ctenosaura melanosterna

Palearis have been protected for some time now in Guatamala but they have been coming in on a regular basis through other countries or someting like that. They were unknowingly ok'ed by USFWS. I think now that they know all about it no more will come into the US. Only quinquecarinata come in now but I doubt that will last long. Cheers. Tom

quinquecarinata indeed don't less long, while their trying to get these also on the list.
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1.1.0 Ctenosaura melanosterna

As with most cteno's pairs are best with lots of hiding places so the female can have multiple places to escape the male if it gets aggressive.