Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a 16yo corn snake, we got him in 1992 when he was just a few weeks old from a private local breeder. He eats small F/T rats that we had been getting from Petco. However, for years they have been having intermittant problems with their freezer, and then for a month or two they have to have the rats hand-delivered from another store. So in October I went to a reptile show and bought a year's worth of frozen rats.

The vendor's small-sized rats were too big (compared to Petco's), so I bought the weanling size. They are very nice and clean and obviously well fed and taken care of. I am very happy with the new rats.

The problem is that Spot has been taking them, then not eating them. I have always hand-fed him, by swinging the rat above his head. (If I ever have another snake, I promise I won't start that again, but we're both too old to change!) He will grab it from me, I always pull back so he thinks it's alive, he constricts and I go away thinking GOOD, that's another meal I don't have to worry about. But...

The last two he's started to eat, then I go back and they're laying in the cage. The first one I took out and it's refrozen, but I'm not sure I'll give it to him again. Refreezing always worries me, plus the rat's face was slimy. This second time I let the rat stay in overnight through the next day, then threw it away.

I feed Spot when he's actively looking for a rat. Since the beginning of October, dates I tried to feed him: Sun 10/5 NO; Fri 10/10 NO; Wed 10/15 YES; Sat, 10/25 YES; Sat 11/1 NO; Wed 11/12 NO; Sat 11/22 NO.

I've been here asking questions before, because he sometimes won't eat more than maybe 2-3 rats from the beginning of November through February, and it drives me crazy! I just want to try and make sure that's all this is, but it's bothering me that he is TAKING the rat, then deciding not to eat it after all. That's a new behavior; he's never done that before.

So, do weanling rats taste or smell different than older, larger ones? When I try again, in a week or so, I want to be successful and need some ideas of why he'd do that and what I can do.

Also, should I just throw away the one that he slimed? Like I said, that one's new to me.

I love snakes, but Spot is my only one, plus he's a pet. He lives in a 55-gallon aquarium, with a screen top. Temps are 85 at the warm end and around 72 at the other side. He's got three hides. One is under his water dish, another is the half-log in the middle, and the one on the warm side is a huge upturned plastic bowl. The only time he spends on the warm side is the first day or so after he eats. He much prefers the cool side.

Thanks for reading. I'll check back later and appreciate any suggestions that are offered!

Ralphine

I'd feed the snake adult mice. At 16, the corn is slowing down in metabolism and fuzzy rats have more fat content than adult mice.

What I'd do with the rats you already have is use hemostats even after the snake has grabbed the rat and keep providing slight movement. This usually gives the snake a sense of urgency, which causes it to eat faster. If the snake starts swallowing the rat and gets it halfway down, chances are it will continue doing so until the rat is fully ingested.

Some snakes get hooked on eating a certain size or type of food. It may very well be that your corn is not adjusting to the new scent and size of the food items being offered.

I'd also only feed the snake one rat at a time. I've seen snakes "lose their concentration" when fed more than one food item and they end up eating nothing.

Some snakes, especially males, naturally go off feed in the Fall. If the snake has access to natural lighting and can experience daylight lengths getting shorter, it may slow down or even stop eating. This can happen even if it hasn't occurred in previous years.

In addition, 16 years is old for a corn. Yes, they can live longer than that, but it's likely slowing down and may end up eating less often.

Tim

Third Eye

The issue of fat in a pinky vs fuzzy vd adult. Tim, I know we have our differences, and this is NOT a post to do with it. But I totally agreed with you on teh fat content. Then last year i read nutrition break downs on the web last year. And the fat was almost the same? they did NOT include those fat obese old mice.

I post this not to just differ from you. But maybe someone has some of those charts of mice and rat nutrition at various ages.

I often used pinky rats for lizards to gain some weight. I'm not in doubt of the facts. As I recall where I saw them was a good source at least in my mind.

So if people have GOOD sources of nutrition, I ask you to post.

off topic, I hope the new house is going well.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Hope it helps!

RodentPro's feeder nutritional composition chart

Thanks Kathy. I was unsure, but yes I guess, the fuzzy to hopper range are much higher in fat than a pinky and higher than an adult, I'll presume in top shape.

Seeing it again, I think I was surprized a pinky has so little. but it makes sense. Also i wish the weight break down had more divisions. But I'll admit I was wrong.

I bow to the guru of the corn.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Also, the comparison of fuzzy rat to mouse is closer than a fuzzy mouse.

I bring this up, because anyone that has bred rats knows a fuzzy rat can vary A LOT!

As a kid I had several hundred cages of rats. GREAT PETS. but that 15-25 dayish size varies a lot. Litter size and how good the mom is. I guess this why I prefer rats over mice. Plus mice are evil lol.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

i agree, i had a couple of my male corns and bullsnakes do the same thing this year and they are exposed to natural lighting too, i'm not worried as i know that they are healthy and it is just that time of the year.
greg

Thanks for the replies, everybody, I really appreciate the time you took to post. The nutrition chart was especially interesting!

I have a years' worth of weanling rats that I want my snake to eat. He's eaten one or two, he has also taken two, the last two. He grabbed it out of my hand, like he always does, and kept hold of it even when I tugged back. Then he let it lay. I want to know what, if anything, that means, since it's a new behavior.

Since we started him on F/T rats, straight from several live mice at each feeding - and I did that years ago with the help of you folks right HERE on this forum - he has only been offered one rat at a time. In his 16 years there has only been ONE time that he regurgitated, and afterwards I believed that that particular rat was just too big.

So... For him to take the rat(s) and then not eat them, has never happened before in his whole life. THAT is mostly what I'm worried about.

Should I wash the next weanling before offering? Maybe it smells or tastes different than the Petco (Gourmet Rodent brand) small rats? And how do I do that?

Should I maybe go buy ONE MORE Petco small rat, and scent the weanlings with it? How does that work? Do I have to thaw it out? Can I keep it - the Petco rat - frozen?

I also sprinkle about every other or every third rat's butt with Reptivite, but I've been doing that for a couple of years, so don't think it should be an issue.

I realize my posts are long, and apologize. I also appreciate anyone who takes the time to read! I just don't want to leave out any info that might help you folks help me, and Spot.

Thank you!!

Ralphine

it's that time of year, feed him alot less often.....like every 2 weeks or even 3....

....had corns that were 24 years old.....

also had corns that died of old age at 12.....

good luck......
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LOL......

I think you have about three things that are happening pretty much at the same time which has changed your snake's eating habits.

One: changing suppliers

Rodent breeders are all different, use different brands of lab chow and kill/freezing processes. This can change the smell of the rodent. Probably not enough that your snake won't know its a rat even if its a smaller rat or younger rat compared to the other rats you used before.

Two: Time of year.

As mentioned, male corn snakes do tend to brumate this time of year. Hence they won't eat as much or as frequently.

Three: Age of the snake.

16 is a great age for a corn snake and he reaches his golden years metabolisms slow down which could mean he is less hungry. Snakes tend to be opportunistic feeders, striking when prey is present.

My suggestions:

Weigh your snake. Monitoring weight gain and loss is a good way to know if he is gaining or loosing weight. At his age, there should be little change in weight.

Throw out the unthawed and frozen rats, not good to refresh already thawed rodents. The rate of decay is much higher if it had a chance to thaw completely then lie around in a warm environment for a few hours. Refreezing it just makes the bacteria dormant, and you risk a mess when you rethaw or worse, a sick snake. Besides, snake probably won't eat it the second time around anyway.

Double the interval between feedings. So if you feed every week, try to feed him in two weeks. He won't die of starvation if he was a healthy weight to begin with. I have a couple adult corn snakes (around 6 years old now) who tend to not eat as much in the winter and don't always eat every week, so I just offer food once every 10 days or two weeks.
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PHLdyPayne

After I re read this your temps are bad. You state 85 to 72? if your feeding a corn 72 is NOT warm enough. If he likes 72, he may want to brumate, 72 is NOT cold enough. He's warm enough to burn calories yet not wanting to eat. NOT good.

Also where exactly is your thermometer/s? I argue with the owner of the shop I help at. Stick on thermometers SUCK!. You don't mount your home thermostat to the front door window for a reason. It does not represent the true temperature of the room you want to read. The same goes with a tank. Top, bottom, side middle what ever. Stick on aquaria type thermometers are pure evil vile pieces of putrid worthlessness.

Ahhhhhhh Ok, now that, that is out of my system. Lie a thermometer on the bottom of the cage where the snake actually lives. 10 minutes you have a reading. Move it to the other end, repeat. Temps should be around 80-85. Long tanks like 40 long or 55 gal are great for different temps zones. But if it really is 72-85 on the floor, you will are setting yourself up for issues of one kind or another.

Also, since I'm doing my shop verbal care, I'll add in using a bulb is great for a variant heat zone. But do not add 3" of bedding as it will not penetrate the bedding. A thin layer, especially in the winter as your house will probably be cooler. You don't want a snake to eat in 85 degrees and bury to sit on glass that is nearer 68 degrees.

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>>I have a 16yo corn snake, we got him in 1992 when he was just a few weeks old from a private local breeder. He eats small F/T rats that we had been getting from Petco. However, for years they have been having intermittant problems with their freezer, and then for a month or two they have to have the rats hand-delivered from another store. So in October I went to a reptile show and bought a year's worth of frozen rats.
>>
>>The vendor's small-sized rats were too big (compared to Petco's), so I bought the weanling size. They are very nice and clean and obviously well fed and taken care of. I am very happy with the new rats.
>>
>>The problem is that Spot has been taking them, then not eating them. I have always hand-fed him, by swinging the rat above his head. (If I ever have another snake, I promise I won't start that again, but we're both too old to change!) He will grab it from me, I always pull back so he thinks it's alive, he constricts and I go away thinking GOOD, that's another meal I don't have to worry about. But...
>>
>>The last two he's started to eat, then I go back and they're laying in the cage. The first one I took out and it's refrozen, but I'm not sure I'll give it to him again. Refreezing always worries me, plus the rat's face was slimy. This second time I let the rat stay in overnight through the next day, then threw it away.
>>
>>I feed Spot when he's actively looking for a rat. Since the beginning of October, dates I tried to feed him: Sun 10/5 NO; Fri 10/10 NO; Wed 10/15 YES; Sat, 10/25 YES; Sat 11/1 NO; Wed 11/12 NO; Sat 11/22 NO.
>>
>>I've been here asking questions before, because he sometimes won't eat more than maybe 2-3 rats from the beginning of November through February, and it drives me crazy! I just want to try and make sure that's all this is, but it's bothering me that he is TAKING the rat, then deciding not to eat it after all. That's a new behavior; he's never done that before.
>>
>>So, do weanling rats taste or smell different than older, larger ones? When I try again, in a week or so, I want to be successful and need some ideas of why he'd do that and what I can do.
>>
>>Also, should I just throw away the one that he slimed? Like I said, that one's new to me.
>>
>>I love snakes, but Spot is my only one, plus he's a pet. He lives in a 55-gallon aquarium, with a screen top. Temps are 85 at the warm end and around 72 at the other side. He's got three hides. One is under his water dish, another is the half-log in the middle, and the one on the warm side is a huge upturned plastic bowl. The only time he spends on the warm side is the first day or so after he eats. He much prefers the cool side.
>>
>>Thanks for reading. I'll check back later and appreciate any suggestions that are offered!
>>
>>Ralphine
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com