Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know that the classic jungle is in no way an inheritable trait or at least none have been proven to be genetic. But then seeing as how brightly coloured they are. Wouldn't it be interesting to see how the colour of a classic jungle would affect the offspring when paired up with a pastel jungle.

Many breeders selectively bred pastels for the brightest colours in the past. So lets see how this will turn out for me. Lets see what this male of mine is capable of producing. All I need to do is add on a couple hundred more grams to my female pastel and everything will be set to go.

Now time for the pictures.

Here is a picture of my '06 Graziani line female pastel.

Here is a picture of my CH '05 Classic Jungle male.

Then here's a picture of the two side-by-side.

-----
Phil Red Hernandez-

i have a classic jungle that hatched in one of my clutches at home.i am also planning on breeding him to one of my pastels this season...
-----
Neutiquam erro. Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.

I am actauly tring to get my super jungle pastel male to breed a pastel female, but he just doesnt seem interested. If my luck changes and I get hatchlings Ill let you know what comes of this.

Super Jungle Pastel. Do you have any pics you can post. If it has not bred and the Jungle trait is considered non-reproducable then how do you know its a super? Just curious. JP

Thats not a stupid question at all, hope this helps. Enjoy my boy. Here is some info on the super jungle pastel directly from nerd.

Mutation: Primary²
Color & pattern

Genetics
Co-dominant (homozygous form)

First Produced
NERD, Inc. (1999)
AKA
Opal

Related Projects
Spider: Killer Bee
Spider: Killer Bee - Axanthic

Super Pastels - sometimes referred to as Opals - are the homozygous form of the Pastel Jungle trait. When bred to a normal ball python, all of the resulting offspring are Pastel Jungles. Due to their ability to only pass along Pastel genes when bred to other mutations, Super Pastels are extremely valuable animals when considering combination projects. The Super Pastel was also the first known representation of a "super"/homozygous form in ball python mutations, produced at NERD in 1999, and added another level of excitement to proving out new morphs in hope of finding a radically different homozygous appearance. These beautiful, extreme yellow snakes have drastically faded heads & extensive blushing throughout the pattern that often takes on a purplish-grey appearance. Super Pastels are simply gorgeous!

The names often get confusing as they change over time.

Originally there was the classic jungle which was included in one of the early ball python morph books but as far as I know has never proved genetic. I hatched one once and thought it might be due to egg stress.

When a somewhat similar animal came along it was named pastel jungle (I think jungle pastel is the same name just out of order). Pastel jungle did prove genetic but eventually "jungle" was dropped from the name. So pastel jungle (jungle pastel?) and pastel are the same thing. It's classic jungle that is different.

Opel was a name for the homozygous pastel (aka pastel jungle) that didn't really stick. Super pastel is the most common name for that animal now but I guess you could call it a super pastel jungle or even a super jungle pastel if you wanted to go back to the original name for pastel.

On a side note what we now call cinnamon was originally named cinnamon pastel with references to some similarities between the then unproven cinnamon and the already proven pastel jungle. After they where proven to be unrelated genes pastel was eventually dropped from cinnamon pastel name which then allowed jungle to be dropped from pastel jungle as it was the only remaining pastel at the time. Then came the enchi pastel which probably also isn't related and eventually just became enchi. Confused yet?

Here is the classic jungle I produced from a stressed egg.

wow u know alot more then I do, thanks for all the detailed information

sounds good to me......

jungles
pastels
cinamons
enchis
black pastels???...what the hey?.....should we call them black cinamons?.....really......I hate writing black pastels....but you can't just type super black and have people know what we mean.....we have to type super black pastel.....

....I move that we start calling them black cinnies....

....

and I do have a friend that uses the opal term....sounds funny every time I hear him say it.....

.......I also want albinos called amels.....and Lucies to be Leucies......?

.......where can we vote?....

Thanxx....good info and start........

(now here we go?)....
.
.
.
-----
......
..........
.............WHY?

LOL......

How about we just start calling them the yellow ones, the brown ones or white ones. Doesn't seem anymore confusing then "Killer- Spinner-Blast-Hypo-Lesser/Mojave BEL. I mean after all they are still a Ball Python aren't they? JP

my male is a classic jungle that hatched out in my very first clutch of all normals. i tried breeding him last year to a normal female and it didn't work. i no longer have his mother (or i would try to breed him to her), but i will try to breed him to a pastel this year.
i like jungles...they come out so bright...it's a shame they dont retain the bright yellow color into adulthood...i will check out those genetic jungles out there.
i will post a pic of my jungle male.
and thanks for the explanation on jungles and pastels...it does get a little confusing at times.
-----
Neutiquam erro. Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.

Let me know when you post pictures of him.
Yes they do tend to lose their colour as they mature and get older. But mine still seems to be holding his colour pretty well. My female pastel is 2 years old and already starting to brown out while my male classic jungle is 3 and half years and still very bright. Which is why I'm planning on pairing him up with my female pastel.
-----
Phil Red Hernandez-

Thanks for the lesson, though I am very familiar with the super pastel. I guess what threw me off was the original post was referring to the "Jungle" or "Classic jungle" and not a Pastel. Which by the way does anyone really call them Pastel Jungles anymore? JP

This is an interesting topic....

Scott has a proven dominant jungle line. The only cross he has done is with a spider. I was lucky enough to pick one up. Here's a pic of my spider x dominant jungle female:

Notice the reduced patterning and higher gold. Also, a trait of Scott's dominant jungle line is a black mustache.

Does anyone else have any dominant jungles??? I'd love to see pics.

Randy, has your classic produced any jungles like him?
-----
Tristan

1.0 Argentine Black and White Tegu (Roy)
1.1 Pastel Ball Pythons
1.0 Spider Ball Python
0.2 Normal Ball Pythons

Would you happen to have a picture of one of their jungles? I'll see if I can get some better pictures of mine and post them up later on.
-----
Phil Red Hernandez-

I ended up giving my classic jungle male away. Sort of wish I had kept and bred him because he was possible possible het stripe. I don't think the guy I gave him to kept him or bred him either. He did have a half sister with a little of the same look that I kept but she got sick right before laying her only clutch bred to a stripe out on breeding loan and the eggs where all bad and eventually her and another sister died before I got them back so I didn't even get to find out if the pretty one was het stripe. I do have one fairly normal but slightly bright possible possible het stripe sister that I got back and hope to breed eventually.

Here is another pic of my classic jungle with his slightly classic jungle half sister both from my possible possible het strip project from years ago. Their incubation times in a crappy Styrofoam incubator overlapped so even though both had at least some of the classic jungle look I still didn't think it was genetic. If anything I was hoping the female's look had something to do with hopefully hitting on the het stripe. I also tried breeding her huge VPI mom with some of that look to a clown once just in case but didn't get any eggs from that loan.

Those are some very nice looking jungles there. I am sorry to hear about what happened to them. The male I have is the only one I have of breeding size so he's getting a round with all my girls.

Perhaps something will come out from the pairings there. Right now I just hope that things go well and I get some eggs. He was proven to pass on the jungle type pattern to one lone male by Camlon Reptiles but I don't believe they pursued further into it. So we'll see how things turn out now that I have him in my collection.

If anything, I'll have a really nice looking male that is only getting lighter as he matures.
-----
Phil Red Hernandez-

Those are some very nice looking jungles there. I am sorry to hear about what happened to them. The male I have is the only one I have of breeding size so he's getting a round with all my girls.

Perhaps something will come out from the pairings there. Right now I just hope that things go well and I get some eggs. He was proven to pass on the jungle type pattern to one lone male by Camlon Reptiles but I don't believe they pursued further into it. So we'll see how things turn out now that I have him in my collection.

If anything, I'll have a really nice looking male that is only getting lighter as he matures.
-----
Phil Red Hernandez-

Vin Russo has a line of genetic jungles (dominant) that he calls "Cong Jungles" here is a link:

http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/pythons/item.nhtml?profile=pythons&UID=106
-----
Neutiquam erro. Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.

i have pics of scott's jungles but i don't want to post them without his authority but i will tell you that they have orange sides and mustaches.

vin russo's congos are really nice and seem to brighten as they get older.

genetic jungle lines are hard to come by and it seems that people have not been able to prove them, let alone cross them with other morphs.

until seeing what russo's congos and scott seavey's jungles do to pastels and spiders, i think they improve certain traits.

the spots pastel:

http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/nss-folder/ballpythonpictures/SpotPastel.jpg

is really nice, similar to dragonherp's:

http://www.dragonherp.com/image/Available/Ball Python/Available up date soejima/DS07(S)PJ-M-03.jpg

do you guys think there is a super jungle?

here's a pic of my spider x dom jungle when she was a baby:

-----
Tristan

1.0 Argentine Black and White Tegu (Roy)
1.1 Pastel Ball Pythons
1.0 Spider Ball Python
0.2 Normal Ball Pythons