Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys, this is a horrible picture, but I was offered a really good deal on a sunglow and this is the animal that he has to offer. I think I can see the 'clear' rings around the tail, doesn't that indicate that this is a regular albino? I offered to pay today, but do not need another albino and I am having trouble telling from this picture and especially with my limited experience with sunglows as babies... Thanks in advance guys!

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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
1.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle and Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

My opinion says no.. Looks like a nice albino to me. Doesnt have the hypo "bow-tie" saddles.

I'd ask for closer pics. I wouldn't buy it if I wasn't sure -- and I'm not convinced by that pic.
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Snake room janitor

Its almost impossible to give a conclusive answer from this picture.Need close up.Appear to be more ring exposure but it does appear that there is possibly slight bleeding of color into those rings.Sometimes saddle appearance can help ,these are almost pinch type saddles but not really.So I can't begin to say forsure.If this is the only picture someone is willing to send.Red flag goes up from that. The more I look at the pic the more I lean towards Sunglow though,only a guess from me. It would be so much easier if the pic were 2X - 3X closer.
. . . . . Lar m
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

I feel horrible, because at first I thought for sure that it was and he has it listed on his photobucket at a sunglow so out of what was left it was the one I was most sure about. Also because he has to sell his whole collection because of lack of work and I had expected to pay him today and got a shipping quote from him, but when he resent the confirmation photo to me that I asked for, I got some doubts.
I sent an email, after reading some of your posts, and asked for a close-up of the tail because a 'breeder friend of mine' wasn't sure it was a sunglow, but a very nice albino . I asked him not to be offended and expressed that it was a good deal either way, even if it was an albino, but that I couldn't spend my limited savings on another albino. I feel pretty bad right now.
If he sends a close-up I'll post it for opinions, although he might just tell me off I can't be sure, he is a tad difficult to communicate with... very short sentences that don't answer all my questions.
Thanks guys!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
1.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle and Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

Don't feel bad. If it were a sunglow then the seller should understand why you need more convincing than the pic offers. He might actually believe it is a sunglow too, but thats not your fault. Sometimes people getting out of a hobby won't care about the rep they leave behind. Hopefully thats not the case but proceed with caution.
Good Luck

I pulled down the pic onto my PC, played with it a little and...

Like you and others said, those rings around the tail blotches scream albino. A very nice albino but albino nonetheless.

It's either filthy or newspaper stained or a paradox(unlikely). While the pics are not clear, it is clear there is some darker coloration.

GO ahead and see what the seller says but in my dealings of acquiring animals, if I'm not totally warm and fuzzy, I bail!!! So far I have yet to be scammed. (to my knowledge, still have some unproven hets)

One last point, while a collection sale can lead to some nice animals, it can also come with the risk of the seller having no vested interest in keeping his reptile seller reputation intact.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

It looks like a regular albino to me.

I can't see the tail rings very well, but I do see white circles in the center of 4 saddles. I see those sometimes in Albinos, but I've never seen them in Sunglows.
If the seller gets upset for asking questions, then walk away. It's just not worth dealing with people like that for any type of good deal. I don't want those types to get my money.
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Snake room janitor

Pay attention to all the red flags. The seller's job is to take the time to explain to you what you need to know to make the purchase. After all he's unemployed anyway, he's got the time, right? He also sent you a tiny bad picture, that's a real bad sign. He should be sending you at least a good photo that will allow you to tell what you need to know, and enough time to let you show it around a bit to get some second opinions. He should also be answering your questions. Those short answers that don't address what you ask are a bad sign too. And worst of all he's getting out of the business, he may not care about his reputation anymore.

Those things alone would keep me from purchasing regardless of the price or the animal. I steer clear of deals with people who can't communicate or can't stick around and back up there purchase in the years to come. In return I make repeat purchases from the same sellers year in and year out that I have come to trust.
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com

While I am still a bit concerned about the fact that he is getting out of the business (as you and Dave mentioned), and is a bit short and to the point in his replies (missing a lot of my random questions i.e. the carrier, heat packs because it is cold here, day to ship possibly, etc.) at least he has been... pretty accommodating so far. He did get back to me about a close-up and was very polite saying he was not offended by my worries and would get me another picture by tonight. So I will wait a bit longer and take a look before I completely make up my mind.
I plan on posting the better picture here to get a last opinion... if I am not 100% sure about anything, I'll be backing out. On a good note, I did research his name for past deals and didn't find anything negative, and one positive transaction... although that doesn't always mean much.
Thanks!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
1.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle and Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

the photo is small and I could be wrong.

He finally sent the close-up today, but I think it is really just a zoom and crop of the original photo. He wrote along with it that he 'guaranteed' it to be a sunglow, I think in reference to my before-mentioned doubts.
However, looking at the photo, I still have doubts despite his reassurances... I can clearly see clear rings around the tail saddles now.... this will be my last post for opinions on this animal. I already think I may politely decline to purchase, I just don't feel 100% confident. Although, if it is an albino... it is a very nicely defined one.
I've gotten some helpful feedback from everyone, so thank you very much and feel free to leave any final thoughts on this photo as well... thanks!

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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
1.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle and Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

I guess it is obvious that I haven't had to pick sunglows out of a pile of albinos... upon closer inspection of some sunglows for sale here on Kingsnake, I can also see a faint ring around the tail saddles, although not as obvious as the one I posted. How can I tell a high-quality albino from a low-quality sunglow, or mid-quality of either? Most of you folks agreed this is likely albino, but what is the main pointer when you guys that it is. One mentioned the white spots within the saddles... what else do you look for? I've never had reason to take a second look before...
Thanks again!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
1.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle and Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

Those tail rings IMO was the clear marker of a non-hypo animal.

Out of curiosity, why do you want a sunglow, just to have one or to possibly breed it? IMO if you're going to breed it you would be better off not messing around with a lower grade animal. There's an old saying - the fruit does not fall far from the tree. Simply put - offspring are typically like the parents. If you have mediocre breeders, while you may get a stunning baby in the pile, mopre will likely be mediocre like the parents. If you have stunning parents, you amy get some mediocre babies, but you are much more likely to get a pile of stunners.

Here are my 3.1 sunglows, each of which I consider to be stunning in their own ways.....

Chester, produced by Jason Robeck

Cyrus, Chesters littermate

Apollo, produced by Dave Lee

Rose, Produced by Angel Vazquez

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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I guess both Dave I wanted one, just to have since, I got my first boa 6 years ago. Whom I still have and whose care I was researching when I saw my first sunglow and then delved into the realm of boa morphs... but you are right, it is silly to get something that is not top of the line, to improve your own offspring. I just wanted one so badly.
You of course have the most amazing animals, I always admire them, and would sell my right arm to have some of them.... but I don't think my arm is worth that much! LOL! A few of my nicer animals I picked up on payment plans. Every now and then I come across something low priced that I consider a gem and I'll snag it for my small collection, but I'm 25 and don't have a lot of funds to spare... and even after befriending more experienced folks and dong a ton of research, I find I'm always learning something new, and not to skip steps. This was pretty spontaneous, but it was an affordable way to get my unicorn (as I've heard someone else refer to an animal they've always wanted, but had always alluded them). I should have known better when I had second thoughts, but it helped to hear opinions from other folks.
So thanks for setting me straight! I did respectfully decline the purchase... I'll either get smart and try to work out a payment plan with a reputable person for an animal I'd be stupid to pass up, or see what my own look like when my DH female is ready (from Salmonboa.com) for my albino next season... hard to pass up a good price though At first I thought it was pretty good-looking for the cost, but yes, the red flags were there.
Thanks everybody!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
1.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle and Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

Like Caden said, pay attention to the red flags. I think this guy is hiding something or just out to rip you off. That is the same pic as the first one. He may not even have the snake. I find it odd that he can't come up with a new pic or pics. How hard is it to go and take new pics? He should be sending you several new pics. If the guy can't come up with new pics then something is wrong. Judging by what I have seen in this post I would stay away from it. It's better to be safe then sorry. It's just my opinion but I would move on.

And on a side note:
How are the Suri girls doing Caden? Can't wait to see some babies.