Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I had a vet tell me today that I have to use carpet or tile or my dragon will get impacted from licking the dirt. Don't they live around dirt in the wild? Can some one help me out. The dirt is so much easier to maintain.

I use sand. I don't like dirt. It's too hard for feces to hide in it. The only reason dragons would eat substate is if their husbandry and nutrition requirements are not met. Impaction is generally caused by too large a prey item, improper temps, or poor hydration.

The substrate debate is a big one. i suspect your vet is subscribing to the school of thought that there is no chance of a substrate impaction if the substrate is solid like tile or carpet or non adhesive shelf liner. This is, of course, true.

Now, as BDLvr says - there are other factors that come into play with impaction - improper care will predispose them to impaction, feeder insects that are too large, etc etc.

Generally fine grain playsand is considered an acceptable "loose" substrate. I would not use "dirt" as it would be harder to see the feces and probably more apt to clump and is not as fine as playsand.

As far as being easier to maintain - i gotta tell you that i use tile or non-adhesive shelf liner and i can't imagine anything being easier. I pick up feces with a paper towel and use a damp sponge to wipe up any excess. Every so often if they get really nasty i either wipe down the whole thing or (with the shelf liner) run it through the dishwasher. With sand or dirt you have to clean out the entire cage every month or so to keep it clean, plus spot cleaning. When i used to use playsand with my beardie i definately spend more time cleaning than i do now.

just my personal experience.

If you want to stick with a loose substrate i would do like BDLvr says and go with sand.
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1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

Replacing the sand every month is way overkill. Each of my enclosures has 200 lbs. of sand in it. I completely change the sand every 9 months when I change UVB bulbs. My issue with shelf liner, which I do use in some enclosures and for quarantine animals is that often it stains and you just can't get it clean. I've never tried the dishwasher though.

Also shelf liner is great if you're there when the poop happens. But, real bad if you come home and the poop has been spread all over the cage and dragon. Sand sticks to the poop so the dragon and habitat stay cleaner.

With a couple inches of dirt, I never change it. I remove any feces every couple of days and have never noticed any smell or "clumping". My substrate is half dirt, half sand. I appreciate your suggestions, my expertese is more with monitors and I need help from dragon pros. Do you keep a solid lid on top to increase humidity?

Bearded dragons are from a semi arid area so keeping high levels of humidity is bad for bearded dragons. Typically it is best to keep humidity no higher than 50%.

A mixed dirt/sand substrate for bearded dragons could be used but like any particulate substrate there is some risk of impaction. Personally the mixed dirt substrate would be more natural than fine sand. Dragons don't live on sand dunes but they do live in mixed packed dirt, sand and scrub as is typically found in semi arid areas. It does have cleaning issues, as brown against brown is hard to see and its the fluid part that ends up being soaked up. But Sand has most of the same problems, some may stick around the fecal matter but fluids will sink down and a running dragon can bury it before it can be found...hence odors and bacteria can build up, especially with deep sand.

I cringe every time I hear people washing soiled shelf liner in a dish washer along with their plates and cups. I don't think dish washers are safe to use has bacteria and parasites (ie salmonella) may not be killed in typical hot water. Maybe a tiny risk but those things I think should be scrubbed and disinfected in a sink or tub where no contact with dishes for human use are cleaned.

I use plastic table cloth and paper towel and spot clean. For young dragons I just just paper towel. It absorbs moisture and easy to clean. It also has the benefit of 'wiping' off fecal matter should the dragon run through their mess before clean up.
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PHLdyPayne

I wash my bowls daily in the dishwasher and have been for years. Never a problem. Moisture and sand makes a solid mass that is easily scooped and obvious. You don't want a thin layer of sand as liquid will pass through to the cage bottom underneath. You want to be able to scoop under the soiled sand. I use 2-3" of sand.

Putting a soiled shelf liner in the dishwasher seems a little gross. The dishwasher is supposed to sterilize(at least what we were told with baby bottles) but just to know that fecal matter could be mixing around with the cups I drink from or plates I eat on is gross, lol.

I still vote paper. Either the brown paper(indented kraft paper I like) or newspaper. Easy to clean and cheap. I also always liked paper towels for young dragons.

Never really thought about it that way, lol

I did run them through ont heir own, not with dishes and obviously took off all of the soiled material, just used it to wash off the staining.
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1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

30 - 40% RH at 85-90 degrees is ideal. Greater than 60% RH will increase the risk of respiratory infections. I regulate the humidity in my house to meet their needs.

yeah, i had issues with the shelf liner staining until i discovered the dishwasher as a cleaning tool - it works great. The staining ultimately was what lead me away from shelf liner and towards tile in the end.

I had always heard that do to issues of bacterial overgrowth it was best to change out the sand pretty freqently. I remember when i used sand (which, granted, was several years ago) the sand used to start to really smell after a couple months if it hadnt been cleaned? Maybe i heard wrong about the cleaning part - cleaning every 9 months doesnt sound too hard
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1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

I've heard comments about sand having a residual smell on various forums before. But like I mentioned if the sand is deep enough you can remove all of the soiled sand. The trick is not to try to sift it but to remove it. I have 15 large enclosures and I have asked people if there is any smell and all have said no. But, I am meticulous and remove any soiled sand immediately.

Hmm, interesting Thanks!
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1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

Impaction is an issue of improper temps and hydration.

We have cages that use soil and they haven't been changed for years. It is 2 ft deep with soil, so there is a lot of soil, and as you spot clean it, you are gradually removing soil, so after a while you need to replace soil to bring it back to full depth, but to do a wholesale changeover is seldom necessary. There is no foul odor with a good soil substrate.

And yes, I would limit venting, a screen top just works against you.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I've used playsand for years without problems for sub-adults and adults. I change it out once a year. Smell is not an issue so long as there is daily spot cleaning. Spray a non-toxic cage cleaner over the soiled area and sift to clean. My only real knock on sand is the air quality in the room after cleaning. Any fine substrate sifted around is going to put alot of dust in the air. Goes away after a little while...best to gather the herps and leave the room for 15 minutes.

I've tested out alot of substrates for dragons and they seem to like sand over others. Digging/Nesting is an instinctive behavior I'd rather not deny them.

I do plan on playing around with a 1/2 sand - 1/2 soil mix in the future

My suggestion is don't sift to clean. Scoop to clean. Dispose of all the sand that has been in contact with the feces and there will be no dust or residual smell.

Good thoughts BDlvr I'll give it a shot.