Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all. I'm not posting this to hurt feelings or start any arguments on the subject. I know this is a sensitive subject to us snake lovers so please be respectful with your expressions. That being said.... many breeders upon finding a deformed baby in a litter will just put it in the freezer to put it down. Many feel that because boas are cold blooded they quickly become unconscious and die painlessly. Do you feel this is a good way to put down a sick boa and would it still be humane to put an adult boa down this way? Your thoughts...

Yea i guess, what other way.
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Richard Ceniceros
Tap or take a nap

I believe in sharp knives and or carbon monoxide! I hunt quite a bit and can tell you that cold SUCKS!!!!

Think about you own mortality and decide slow or fast? I choose fast!

Be well.
Joel

if it is an adult boa i would bring it to your vet and have it put down like they do with cats and dogs, i think that would be the most humane way to go.
greg c

Cervical dislocation and/or decapitation is the quickest and most effective way.
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South Central Herpetological

Freezing is lots slower than you think and cruel IMO. If a euthanasia by a Veterinarian isn't possible....then, well...chop the head off or gas it.

I think most people don't know the proper way to perform this.

Joel

AVMA when performed by a skilled person. Cervical dislocation w/o decapitation is not considered euthanasia and vice versa, they must be done together.

Absolutely not ! Has to be one of the most miserable ways to die freezing to death. Cold b;looded or not.
I would cut a Boas head off quickly before freezing it.
Dry ice would be even better-Carbon dioxide chamber.
. . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

When concentrated carbon dioxide gas contacts the moisture on the surface of the lung tissue, it is converted to carbonic acid. This is a mild acid but the burning feeling is fairly strong, and I have experienced this several times. I have been working with dry ice for decades and have been around it numerous times in ton quantities in large storage boxes. When you accidentally inhale slightly while leaning into one of these containers, you get the experience first hand. When euthanizing mammals with CO2, the complete replacement of the container interior with CO2 gas renders the mammal unconscious within seconds and the lung irritation is extremely short lived. This is obviously due to the high metabolic rate of mammals.

When using CO2 with an ectotherm, this lung irritation is going to be over an extended period of time and probably more severe, as unconsciousness will take much longer to achieve with their very much slower metabolism.

I am in no way advocating the use of freezing, but in reality, if you did use this method, the animal should be placed in a insulated styrofoam box so the cooling effect would occur over an extended period, and the snake would be completely unconscious before the tissue began to freeze. The rapid freezing, non-insulated method would be the worst way of all, as the effect of the cold on the tissue and brain of the snake would be the most traumatic. The best way, especially for larger snakes, would be euthanasia by a vet.

Kelly

Thanks Kelly for the input on CO2 would not be aware of this info unless pointed out by you.
Others have made great helpful insights here as well.
. . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

I was not aware of that either, but it does make sense.

As of 2002, the American Humane Association deemed freezing a humane way of euthanasia in SMALL reptiles. While I have questions on this, it is considered (or at least was when my paperwork was dated) by American Humane Association to be humane.

American Humane Association is the primary organization that teaches the Euthanasia Certification course to shelter employees. The classwork aims more at dogs and cats, however the paperwork is dated 2002. This may have changed.
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Cindy
PHFaust

Email Cindy

Land of the Outcasts!

if it were a dog or a cat the humane way to put it down would be to bring it to your vet and have a euthanasia done, that said be a responsible pet owner, your boa deserves the best even in death, bring him to your vet and let him die peacefully, if you had to choose for yourself wich way you would like to die,freeze to death, have your head cut off, or euthanasia(no pain)they first give an injection to knock the animal out like in an operation and at this point they could cut you in half and you would not feel a thing, then they inject again to stop the animals heart, i feel that this is the most humane way to go, its a no brainer.
greg c

My advise,What i would do is put a sleeping pill in its mouth as you would force feeding it, thats the least painful way to go he or she will go to sleep and never wake up. cutting off heads is barbarick cause if you have ever notice snakes keep moving afterwards. freezing sucks.I understand not every body can afford a vet like some, but who am i to give advise anyway on here nobody answers my put up questions any way it quit seams they have there small personal group on here.

Please do not put boa's in the freezer. They will start to freeze and crystalize before they die. This is EXTREMELY painful. Imagine having your blood freeze and crystalize while flowing through your vains...If you put them in the fridge it will gently lower the temp and basically put them to sleep and them they will pass when the temp drops low enough. Also I would recomend the vet or beheading before I recommended the freezer!!!!

Joe

I have wrestled with this over the years. I too thought that decapitation was the quickest and least painful to the snake... although very distasteful for me...until I put a snake down this way. A full TWENTY minutes later the snakes pupils were still reacting to light. This upset me greatly, to say the least. I am assuming that with the pupils reacting to light there was still some form of brain activity.

Reptiles systems do not react at all like mammals. It takes thirty to forty minutes to knock out a 10 pound snake for surgery. It also takes over 30 minutes for the heart to stop beating when euthanizing a snake with the same stuff they use for dogs and cats (at more than 5X the dose).

I am of the belief, at this point, that refrigeration, followed by freezing, is possibly the most humane thing for a snake that must be put down. Being cold blooded the snake will not feel discomfort because its body is not trying to raise its temperature. (That is why mammals feel discomfort in the cold, their bodies are trying to maintain a certain temperature, this does not occur in reptiles.) Their bodies just slowly shut down until all functions stop.... About the same as large amounts of pentobarbital will do, without the vet bill.

This is a very difficult subject, and unfortunate reality, for all of us that love our snakes and want to do the best thing for them when we know that there is no hope or quality of life left for them. I know I don't sleep well whenever I have to make one of these tough decisions.

Kathy

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I did put a snake down by refrigerating overnight and then decapitating and then into the freezer. It did seem effective.
It was a small boa less than a pound.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Thanks for the input well done.
Joel

There's been a few times when I've needed to put animals down. At one point, I tried placing one in my rat co2 chamber, I assumed it would work in a similar fashion to the way it works on the rats. I was very wrong. It took a very very long time, and I agonized about taking the animal out of the chamber.
But, with these sort of things, once you've started its best not to stop in my opinion.
I've also at one time tried decapitation as a method of euthanasia, but my results were just as Kathy mentioned. It was one of the saddest things I've seen.
I've not had to put a snake down for quite some time, but if I did I think I would most likely do as Kathy mentioned, fridge then freezer.

If you are going to decapitate a reptile. I have found this to be the most effective, and humane, method of euthanasia for snakes. Refrigeration and feezing may not cause the snake any pain however I have not seen any data backing up this assumption. Either way it is a tough process to be involved in.

"Reptiles systems do not react at all like mammals. It takes thirty to forty minutes to knock out a 10 pound snake for surgery."

That's not true, at least not in my experience. Way back when very few vets used injectable anesthetics in reptiles and now it is common place. Most vets that I know or have worked for premed with midazolam, hydromorphone, and ketamine (all have equal or less dose compared with cats and dogs) and 10-15 minutes later induce with propofol or isoflurane/sevoflurane. I anesthetized a cat today using the exact same drugs and induced anesthesia 20 minutes after the premed with ketamine/valium. Reptiles do however wake up much slower than a cat or dog given the same protocol of drugs.

great post, interesting info.
greg c

Blunt force head trama.

It's how I used to kill mice and rats and I've done it to put down fish (large 12"+ red devil cichlid and an 8" dovii) and a snake (full grown corn). While messy, it kills in seconds and IMO is fairly humane, with the vet putting the animal down being the most humane option.

I did cull a baby boa once by placing in the fridge and then freezer because I had read that was an okay way to do it but I would not go that route again. Granted, you don't have to see it but it takes a long time and you never know if or how much it suffers. I prefer to end the suffering in the quickest way possible, it's how I would want to die.

I had read that snakes heads/brains still function anywhere from 10min to an hour after decapitation, so I would not recomend that unless it was followed by destroying the head/brain.

Tough subject but one that many of us face after being in this hobby for any length of time, especially breeding.

My $0.02
-April
Euthanasia of reptiles

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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

nice point april, if the head and brain are damaged with a hard blow the brain cannot function anymore to feel the pain so you would think, if you decapitate the snake you really don't know for sure if the snake will be pain free, but you also have to have the guts to be able to smash the snakes head, taking the boa to the vet is probably the most humane way of putting it down, i thinkyour right that the 2nd most humane way would be smashing the head.
greg c

Freezing is in no way a humane method of killing and is NOT considered a method of euthanasia. As stated earlier, the best way for field herpers or people not seeking veterinary care to end suffering is through pithing followed by decapitation, or cervical dislocation followed by decapitation. You must end the brain function BEFORE decapitating or it is not considered euthanasia. This is the most recent consensus statement from the AVMA on euthanasia: www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf

The exerpt on cooling:
"Cooling—It has been suggested that, when using physical methods of euthanasia in ectothermic species, cooling to 4 C will decrease metabolism and facilitate handling, but there is no evidence that whole body cooling reduces pain or is clinically efficacious.206 Local cooling in frogs does reduce nociception, and this may be partly opioid mediated. 207 Immobilization of reptiles by cooling is considered inappropriate and inhumane even if combined with other physical or chemical methods of euthanasia. Snakes and turtles, immobilized by cooling, have been killed by subsequent freezing. This method is not recommended.13 Formation of ice crystals on the skin and in tissues of an animal may cause pain or distress. Quick freezing of deeply anesthetized
animals is acceptable.208"

Even an injection of euthanasia solution is sometimes not considered humane. In small snakes, finding a vein is impossible and injecting sodium pentobarbital into the heart w/o anesthesia first is considered inhumane. In these situations many are anesthetized first and then given and intracardiac injection or they are given an overdose of ketamine intracoelomically instead.

wow! nice post and very educational.
greg c