Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all. I have an oppurtunity to pick out a couple of het clown girls and I've heard some talk of het clown markers. Can anyone elaborate? All 3 girls have the same dad and look nothing alike as far as pattern goes. I suppose the best bet would be to pick the one that looks most like dad or buy all 3 lol. Can anyone post some pics of theyre het clowns or point me out to some pics online?
Thanks

There are no markers on any recessive project het animals including het-pieds

There are no 100% markers on het animals, but there are things to look for that may give you a better chance of picking out a het. I'm not good at it, so I couldn't help much. I just thought saying there are no markers and not elaborating was pessamistic (did I spell that correctly?).

I respect your opinion BUT pessimistic, not!!!

Is it black or white, het-pied markers fall more into the grey zone, don't they !?!

If all Het-Pieds had the marker then yes, it would be a full marker, the simple fact that some 100% Het-Pieds do not have the said marker puts an end to the debate, doesn't it?

The Het-Pied marker phenom was started by those selling possible het-Pieds in order to corner the Het-Pied market vrs other possible het-pieds with no marker.

In my eyes, its a 100% marker or it isn't.

I'd like to hear a concrete theory on why Het-Pied markers should be accepted.

There are a couple ways of looking at it.

"Marker = Het" might be true. If you have a big clutch of pos hets and you breed all the markers they MIGHT all prove out....to my knowledge no one has done this to prove that it's true?

However we have proven that "Het != Marker". Meaning if you have that same clutch of pos het and you breed all the non-markers some will most likely prove to be hets. (or another way to look at it is a clutch of all 100% hets...some will have markers some will not, even though all are hets)

While I'm not a big fan of saying the former is gospel truth....I'd lean towards picking out a "marker" het in a clutch of pos hets myself.

That being said the OP's question:
To some degree clowns have "markers"....in that alot of times het clowns are lightly colored and have high white on their sides....basically the prettiest looking ones might be hets

Hope that helps!

>>I respect your opinion BUT pessimistic, not!!!
>>
>>Is it black or white, het-pied markers fall more into the grey zone, don't they !?!
>>
>>If all Het-Pieds had the marker then yes, it would be a full marker, the simple fact that some 100% Het-Pieds do not have the said marker puts an end to the debate, doesn't it?
>>
>>The Het-Pied marker phenom was started by those selling possible het-Pieds in order to corner the Het-Pied market vrs other possible het-pieds with no marker.
>>
>>In my eyes, its a 100% marker or it isn't.
>>
>>I'd like to hear a concrete theory on why Het-Pied markers should be accepted.
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John Dague
JD Constriction
www.jdconstriction.com

...like they said....prettier.....

as for pieds...they have a marker and a "shade".....some might have the marker and not the "shade"...some might have the "shade" and not the markers.....but if they have both.....I'd bet on it.....(bought 2 poss hets with both and both dropped pieds)...

....het clowns are pretty too............

het ghosts are more orange at times yet pastels het ghost are duller and uglier......makes no sence......

....anyways......

....buy all three.......don't be shy.......

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LOL......

I beg to differ on that one.. This is my original Pastel Het Hypo. Does he look dull or ugly to you.. Some of his Pastel Poss Het Hypo daughters are really nice too.. I think your Pastel Het Hypo statement is not the case across the board.. Anthony McCain.

This is him now as an adult, still looks pretty good I think. I have nicer ones but he is still above average .. I don't see how the Hypo gene would make them look worse? Anthony McCain.

hhmmm.....I did say uglier......guess some are.........

like I said later......they have an odd over wash of dullness....not all bright.....not all ugly.....

different lines of ghost and different lines of pastels..

my one bunch is duller......they are nice, but....you can tell if they are hets from non-hets at times.....
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and the bestest prettiest brightest bell line male I got years ago....turned out to be not so pretty in a couple years....

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LOL......

didn't say it was all 100%.....

.......let's just say friends and I guess alot of poss hets to be het......

......duller.......hope I didn't say ugly.....???.I'll go look....duller......a wierd overwash.....

......there are 200000000000000000000000 different pastels out there........you got a good one......

......show me your pastel ghosts???????

.....Thanxx
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LOL......

Here you go.. Anthony McCain..

....nice one....

I got three this year......sweeeeet..I love pastel ghosts......

......right now breeding for alot more of them....hopefully I sell a few.....LOL.....can't keep them all???......

.....my pastel het ghosts might be a little washed over but my pastel ghosts are really light...the one looks like a super pastel ghost.....but she's not...and I am lucky to have her....her cord was out, she was not well...and I was ready to throw her in the freezer......she shed and the cords and intestines all hooked up correctly I guess...and she ate right away.......before her sister.....

good luck......

......and people are still hatching babies...WTH???

...LOL
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LOL......

Thanks man ! Ya pretty weird isn't it.. I have a 8 egg clutch out of my Genetic Stripe stuff due in about 12 days, talk about off season, lol ! Anthony McCain..

Tells and markers = (this one or that one). One should not think of this as a sure thing. When looking for a het, buy the one YOU like. Unless you have enough to buy all that you are offered, you are taking some ones word that its a het. There are alot of UNTRUST WORTHY venders out there ( GREED ). Build a relationship with a vender and don't bend to the high pressure sale tactics. I like certin things with het pieds and differant things when it comes to het clowns. It's what I like. It should be what you like. Your buying it. Whats your gut feeling? I produced my 1st Pied from a 66% Pete Kaul line and a 25$ normal pet store. Buy what you like you can't go wrong. Use the markers to help you if you you can't make a decission however that doesn't make it a sure thing.

WOW!!! I'm speechless! You bought a het pied from a pet store for 25? Thats kinda cool, I bought a breeding size male het pied about a month ago for 50$ and I thought that was a good deal.

Maybe "marker" isn't the best word. If I understand right you believe to be a "marker" it would have to be 100%; basically like an accepted co-dominant appearance.

Another objection to “marker” I’ve read was that the term indicated a separate linked gene and not an effect of the mutant gene it’s self.

I believe that whatever it should be called ("indicator"?) that what is going on is that some real world mutations are not as cut and dried as text book recessive or co-dominant and that some mutations that we consider recessive have sporadic co dominant tendencies. I believe that most het pieds show some effect of their single copy of the pied mutation and that it's not a separate gene that causes the het indicator markings. To me the bright colors and dark black separating white starting to creep up from the belly look very much like the start of a piebald pattern.

Some personalities despise gray areas. It's generally accepted that there are some het pieds that don't show any indicators and that there are some non het pieds that have indicator characteristics. To me this doesn't mean there isn't anything to the indicators or that they can't be very useful. But lets set aside for a moment if you believe it's true or not, what IF there was an indicator that was seen in 80% of hets and only 10% of non hets? Even if it wasn't 100% black and white wouldn't this be statistical proof that there was something to the indicator and wouldn't it be useful when picking possible hets?

You're right Randy-I had a couple female 100% het pieds (fathered by my pied male) last season, and it was next to impossible to sell them-everyone wants "markers"!

So i just ended up keeping them as future breeders.....
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Heres my Bell line pastel het ghost hes not to bad looking this is a dark pic without flash.

As far as hets having markers like some others said if I had to pick poss hets out of a group I look for certain "tells" on vpi axanthics, ghosts (or hypos), pieds, lavs, desert ghosts, and clowns. But not all hets have the "markers".
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Damian Macioce
www.strongholdreptiles.com

Completely disregarding pattern, color, and looks, I'd go with the heaviest/largest girl for her age. You'll want the one that is the most established, assuming all three are guaranteed hets, so that you have the girl that is ready to breed sooner.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)