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I got these in today and it was a dream come true to get this pair. I owe it all to my long time friend John Cherry and I want to tell him thank you again for letting me get the oppurtunity to have these.
Thanks again John

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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

male

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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

They look good......and hungry

Thank you Russ, They both fed today when they came in. I also acquired a nice breeder pair of greeri I will have to get pic's of them tonight and post. neither was keeping still long enough today when they arrived so I got a lot of blurry ones.
you have been in this longer than me so you know how excited I was to get the chance to own this pair.
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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

Yowsa! Those are some cool looking thayeri. Obviously John thinks you are good steward for that precious DNA. Congratulations, and have fun with them! -- Tom

Thank you Tom, I must say when he offered them knowing what I know about them and the lineage behind the two, it has been like Christmas coming early. I have looked at them so many times today still in shock....lol
Santa's new name is John Cherry....lol
Never expected to own the Lepoard female or the white male.
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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

of them.I am very skeptical of the "greeri" though.The one could pass in my book but the thin banded buckskin one either one very unique animal or has allot of theyeri in it.

Good luck with them,I would like to see what the babies look like from that pair.

L8r

>>of them.I am very skeptical of the "greeri" though.The one could pass in my book but the thin banded buckskin one either one very unique animal or has allot of theyeri in it.
>>
>>Good luck with them,I would like to see what the babies look like from that pair.
>>
>>L8r
>>

I thought the very same at first, but after viewing better photos I'm not so sure. I would breed them to each other and see what comes out. The babies could provide a little more evidence one way or the other.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Has anyone heard Bob's input on the animals?

-Cole

and see what he says.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Bob said it didn't look like any greeri he has ever seen.

I think the point here is that questionable animals will
always be questionable unless one can pull parent and clutch pic information from a breeder that actually kept records.

The real test for me, is would I spend my money on them. Although I said I wasn't positive they are hybrid, I surely would not buy them. So no offense to Michelle, John, or Erik, but with that I will bow out now.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

I'm not seeing any
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Darwin Rocks!

Go down to John Cherry's post there is a picture.
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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

Ouch! I see what Shannon pointed out. Sometimes you hear some real hair splitting on species identification around here but those are without question atypical for greeri.

This kind of goes back to why I don't like to say my stock is pure. Instead, I'll tell you where I got my stock and let you make the call because there is just too much not to know about a lot of these lines. I see it as completely possible that one could feel that they've "done their homework" and still end up producing the occasional offspring that through the entire lineage into doubt. Frankly I look at some of these green thayeri out there and wonder if there isn't some greeri in the woodpile. To illustrate, here is one of mine from Applegate and Lemke stock

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Darwin Rocks!

>>>I see it as completely possible that one could feel that they've "done their homework" and still end up producing the occasional offspring that through the entire lineage into doubt.

This is absolutely possible. What is troublesome though is the trend to entirely skip the homework part and then offer up so called pure animals (I'm not pointing the finger at any one in particular). Too many time folks get the snakes first, then do the tracing, only to find out there is no information available past a certain point.

It's always going to be a buyers market in the regard that they are the ones who decide to part with the money for a particular snake. Obviously there are all types of buyers, some that are way picky and some that just don't care.

I don't keep the snakes for money, or for the intent of making money, however, I feel that breeders that wish to cater to the picky side of the market must keep better records, and ask better questions to begin with.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Just to reiterate Joe, its not that I don't do or believe in homework. More goes into stock selection than price and the eye candy factor. I like nice well-bred classic animals. My experience is that similar stock from similar minded people is most likely to produce more of the same.

I also tend to believe that breeders who demonstrate an appreciation for a form's natural history are less likely to "knowingly" pass off animals that are known crosses. This is perhaps because they recognize animals that are outside the norm and bypass them to start with.

All that said here is a nice animal I produced this year that blows everything I've said out of the water! This was a hold back untill I had a problem with a shippment and sent him along as a replacement.

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Darwin Rocks!

what's wrong with that one? I know there was a lot of discussion about it, but it looks like a good thayeri to me.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Tony,

I just noticed this photo! Looks like a L.t. multistrata (except the nuchal "key-hole"! Nice animal, man.

Are you going to share any more temporalis photos with us over on the triangulum forum?!...

-Cole

Just to play devils advocate here. When dealing with the 'Mexicana complex" so to speak, hard telling what genes are lurking there waiting to pop out. True, there has not been as much variation noted in our breeding populations of mex mex and greeri as the thayeri, but, who knows, there may be some atypical genes in there that pop out once in awhile.
Jeff Robbe
Everybody have a great holiday season.

Most of the greeri and mex mex in captivity originate from one or two localities. In nature and in preserved collections there are snakes from other localities that are quite different in more than one way (color / pattern, morphology, and scale counts).
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Michelle,

I'm very happy that are new to your Zoo! I'm looking forward to seeing their progeny for certain...Sometimes research into "bloodlines" adds to the acquisition of genetics for the future to preserve them in captivity...

Thanks for those photos! They'll do just fine until he poses for a better one. Check your email...there's a bunch of "stuff" there tonight...

Later,
Jim.

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CSRAJim

Thank you Jim,
you know how bad I was freaking over this one, you were right there with me....lol
I really love that one in the second photo, the saddle splits are awesome.
I am going check email now, will call you this week.
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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

Michelle,

No worries...I'd would've been "freaking out" as well if I was in your shoes over this...

Yep, years worth of "bloodline" research amounted to a true and prized and cherished genetic acquisition for your collection...

John...Sincere thanks to you...

Later,
Jim.
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CSRAJim

They're really nice looking Michelle, and I can understand why you're excited about your new pair. They have a very interesting and unique look to them, different from what I'm most used to seeing here on the forum. Good luck with them. Jim

Thank you Jim, the genetics behind these are so preciouse and I have been in awe of them over the past few years. I am still kind of in shock they are here.
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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

Durn Michelle,

If I had known you wanted them so much, I would have sent them last year. I have just so much room for these durn Thayeri. As of tonight I think we have about 38 females that are due to go this coming year. plus a ton that are coing up. So some needed to go.

By the way the female produced 9 eggs this year and all fed on pinks as a first meal without scenting.

On another note has anyone else tried mob feeding thayeri ie placing a pile of frozen thawed on a cup top in the middle of the cage with a group of neonates and then watch them all go to the pile delicately pick out a meal and proceed to go to other spots in the cage and eat it.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Cherryville Farms

Thanks John,
I was afraid to ask last year I didn't know you would part with them. i am glad I finally asked though...lol
I have never tried mob feeding them, but will. The female is 7 years old correct? that was a good size clutch for her. she took a mouse right off today. me and the kids have watched her probaly more than she likes though....lol
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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

Hi John -- that last picture looks like the female MSP I bought from you (through Don S.) two years ago. Except for the head pattern, they look like doppelgangers. She is always ready for a meal and totally laid back. One of my favorites . . .

I really am impressed with this line of MSP they are sure not your regular MSP animals for sure. Glad you like yours, you will get some blacks out of that line also in most cases.

here is a bad pic of your greeri also Michelle

I remember those on your table in Houston.
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

Yes they were there, I don't do Greeri anymore. These came from a friend that bought them at the Dallas show a while back and I got them from him on a trade of sorts deal.

They are a good feeding pair and remind me of the greeri we use to see coming out of Mexico many years ago when we all could go there and collect.

Have a Safe and Happy Holiday Everyone.

John Chery
Cherryville Farms

I screwed up on the origins of those animals Michelle. He has had them for a number of years and he is sending the history on them to you.

Sorry for the Dallas blurp.

Thank you John,
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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

we talking this pic?

the one on right looks greeri pretty much....left is thayeri

...am I missing something?.....is the discussion of cross on this right animal???

......do greeri have nuchal blotches like this(almost mex mex look)...? it's been so long since I bred greeri....

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LOL......

The REAL DEAL Leopard Leonis. I would have messed myself if I had picked those up. Great find. Wow..... they look excellent
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Vichris
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

Vichris Variables

Thanks Chris, you now how excited i was to finally get them. I think you and I had a conversation about them over a year ago.
Still in shock they are here. When John offered to send them i thought he was joking at first. Once they arrived damn I finally got um...lol. thank you John!!!
How have you been? You ain't ready to get back into thayeri yet?
I hope to put her with this male in 2010.

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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

Chris,

Hey man, how are things going these days with the hobbies? How are things going with the low fat meat in the freezer?

I'm finding out what it's like with a few critters at home (77 now) and I'm in the process of putting the "children" down to get ready for the spring...

I'm looking forward to see what Lester, Butterscotch and Emma produce this year as last year I only had 2.2 thayeri and 2.2 alterna (Juno's). This year it'll be 5.5 (3.3 first timers) for the thayeri and 2.3 alterna (Juno's)...One alterna female for the first time...

Another good year of experience bro...

In your travels, if you bump into Kim (formerly Kim's Colubrids) and Slack (Know Slack Reptiles)...Ask them to drop me a line as I'd like to correspond with them regarding genetics of Emma and Butterscotch if they remember...

Later,
Jim.

PS: I'm very happy that Michelle acquired the "White Leonis" male and the "Leopard" female as well...

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CSRAJim

glad you got them safe and sound sorry i havent talked to you lately... lots going on... i'll send you an e-mail when i have time
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Tons of Corns, A Trio of Creamsicles, A Black Rat, A pair of Leucistic Black Rat X Leucistic Texas Rat Intergrades, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn, Ball Pythons, A Pair of Albino Nelsons Milksnakes, A Rescue RTB, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, 2 Snapping Turtles, an Eastern Box Turtle, a Bearded Dragon, an Adult Rescue Iguana