Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was looking for alternatives to fatty XXL & XXXL Rats, so I thought I'd try Guinea Pigs for a comparably priced leaner meal.
Snakes don't seem interested. Seems like it would be a good choice, as they are somewhat sympatric.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

>>I was looking for alternatives to fatty XXL & XXXL Rats, so I thought I'd try Guinea Pigs for a comparably priced leaner meal.
>>Snakes don't seem interested. Seems like it would be a good choice, as they are somewhat sympatric.
>>Any feedback would be appreciated.
>>jsc
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>>"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
>>John Crickmer

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Over the years I've had a few large female Peru boas that would really go for Guinea pigs, especially pre-ovulation. I decided that giving them a couple of big Guinea pigs actually was helping prepare them for breeding.. can't say for sure from such a small sample whether there is anything to it.. but it might be worth a try.
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I'll say this, I've seen a few big old Guinea pigs that were butter-fat! so I'm not sure if they are necessarily a low-fat food.
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Hope that helps.
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Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

search this on the web it gives you the nutrient values of animals.
RodentPro.com - Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey
greg c

I try not to give much advise anymore, to stay away from debates.

However, I will say this; " In my own observances over the years, it has shown that lean prey is the way to go. "

I believe, that most Boas are not only taking in way to high of a caloric intake, but way to much fatty prey.

Rabbits " in my honest belief " are the only way to go for adults as they are very lean in comparison and Boas I have seen that are raised up on Rabbits " once they are big enough to take them, " seem to fare better and keep a very solid and boxed off look to them and even digest them relatively faster than even rats of half or less the size.

My records on digestion alone, seem to point highly to a faster digestion of leaner prey.

I can give a Boa a couple of Jumbo rats and then give a comparitive size Boa next to it a 4 pound rabbit that weighs twice as much and the rabbit eater will defecate several days faster.

Common sense to me and that is what I try to live by.

Take it as you will and good luck.

I also know humans, that are on Rabbit Meat diets, because they are much leaner meat.

Be Blessed, John J

I too feed rabbits to my Boas. From fuzzies, on up. I haven't done any statistical observations - rabbits vs rats . I originally used rabbits because they grow much faster, and also no tubs to clean - just a periodic shoveling.
I also eat rabbits, good BBQ !
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Snake room janitor

What nobody is taking into account is the how the Metabolism of Ectotherms work. I've posted this over and over again, but no one really seems to get it. Heat equals higher metabolic activity. Metabolic activitity means an active digestive syetem, immune system, etc. I firmly believe the cookie cutter Boa keeping recipe is flawed. Flawed in the fact that it doesn't allow these animals to get to the metabloic level they need to digest properly. Feeding less solves it from the other end, but solves it for who? The Boas or their keepers? I leave my ultratherms wide open, and they sit between 120-130 degrees. The Boas sit under them, and are HOT to the touch when they do so. They have the ability to thermoregulate from 78 degrees to whatever the heatpad is putting out, and my Boas are super-charged compared to others that are given the 90 or 92 degree hotspot. They digest incredibly fast, and process what they take in. Converting it into usable energy and not just fat. They are fed every 5-7 days and I've yet to make an obese Boa. Take it for what you will, but Ectothermic metabolic systems are very complex, and completely foreign to anything thats warm blooded.
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South Central Herpetological

What I don't understand is when I've had cages get a hot area of 95 degrees or more, my Boas (all of them) are found in the coolest spot they can get to, and stay their. I never find snakes hanging out on direct heat as you state that yours always do. Another thing is that you must have very large cages to get a range of 78 degrees to 130. If I set my hot spot to 90, the cool end is 80. If I set it to 110, the cool side is around 100 -- just about a 10 degree drop due to the heat dispensing. I don't find it natural or any rational reason to want to feed so often anyways. I personally think that weekly feedings is to often for Boas over 2 years of age.
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Snake room janitor

>>I was looking for alternatives to fatty XXL & XXXL Rats, so I thought I'd try Guinea Pigs for a comparably priced leaner meal.
>>Snakes don't seem interested. Seems like it would be a good choice, as they are somewhat sympatric.
>>Any feedback would be appreciated.
>>jsc
>>-----
>>"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
>>John Crickmer

Guinea Pigs are substantially fattier prey animals, all thought for quick weight gain for pre ove females its not a bad way to go.

Rabbits are leaner than both rats and pigs but larger.

Search the nutrition online or if raising your own, you can adjust the food to produce a higher quality prey animal.

I've used both pigs and rats and I never had a single refusal...
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile
Specializing in Boa Morph's

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

I've used GP on occasion. They have always been accepted as readily as rats, everything from small to XXXL.
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uncommonboa.com

My thinking on the GPs was I could get the same but leaner body mass at a younger age with GPs. I agree they have equal chances of becoming obese in old age. In other words, a XXL guinea pig would be the same size as a XXXL Rat, but maybe one third the age and with a lot less fat.
Three GPs were offered and 3 were finally eaten. I think my snakes are just too cool right now to be that interested in trying something new.
As a matter of fact, I did try a 3.5 lb rabbit on one of my big girls, but she spit it out after just getting past the head.
Too large a diameter. My biggest boas are only 6, maybe 7 ft. I'll have to find much younger rabbits if I do use them.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I had a bad experience with XXXL rats, (I suspect they were Zuckers) so I stay away from anything above XL when it comes to rats. Apparently Zuckers don't get huge amounts of that "special fat" until they get really older/larger. I try to avoid the ones that have that "Zucker look" even when they are smaller, but I have only had a problem with the really big ones. IMHO GP or bunnies are the way to go for the big girls (and boys if you have any that big).

Mark
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uncommonboa.com

I had some really bad experience this past summer. Not one of the Rats I used was more than a large Rat all problem causers were in fact large.Except in 1 case 1 unusually plump medium. I always feed Jumbo rats to my Adult fems but ran out and used my Large which usually are reserved for Adult Male Boas. Every 1 of these problem causing rats were Black or Black and white.I still believe the whole problem was fat related. Black hooded rats and I believe Zucker or Zucker related rats were to blame. Fat and Boa digestion do not mix. I believe it can lead to a bacteria bloom . No solid science to prove this but enough circumstantial evidence to make me quite certain.
Fat is a problem with Boas.
. . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Yes. I agree. Zucker Rats are black and white. They may come in other colors. I don't know. And they needn't be XLg or bigger to be too fatty. They do appear in the feeder market and they are a problem. I have photos of oily exudate floating on the water [surface] from a soaking boa's stool.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Are all zuckers the hooded black and whites
and a rats diet would that make a difference
in them being fatty or not? I raise my own rats
and most consist of the black and whites but most
of them were produced out of a black male and a
wild looking female that i then bred to other white
rats and came up with my black hooded.If it is the
hooded rats in general I can wean them out of my
breeding stock Thank You for any input on this

Black Hooded Rats as well as Zucker Rats are specific Breeds.Specifically bred for scientific research into areas such as Hypertension,Diabetes,Obesity,other fat related health issues.So I can't say all multi colored rats are either Black Hooded and or Zucker. I can say that Black Hooded and Zucker are Black or Multi colored Black and white rats.You see the dilemma. I'm sure there are other multi colored black and white rats that are not related to Zucker or Black Hooded rats. You would have to know exactly where your breeders originated I think. This is why at this point I will stick with all white feeder rats and mice as well if or when I use them.
I'm not in a position to breed my own rats.

Two Links below have info about these rats I'm speaking of.
What and How these rats are bred for
. . . . Lar M

Harlan - Animal Research Laboratory
http://www.harlan.com/research_models_and_services/research_models_by_product_type
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Taconic | Smart Solutions to Improve Human Health

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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz