Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is a pair of MA locale easterns. The female is pictured in my hand. They are quite different looking than most other easterns with smaller blotches, especially towards the tails.

Dave

DNS Reptiles

Nice snakes, Dave! I especially like the female - what a beautiful background color and nice contasting blotches.

-Cole

Thanks Cole. That's a nice compliment coming from a NA milk fanatic such as yourself.

Dave

I love Easterns, they are my favorite subspecies.
Thanks for sharing.

Thanks. Glad you enjoyed the pics.

Dave

Nice snakes Dave. The male has similar coloration to the eastern male I caught in my backyard in Maryland. My female has a tan backround with brown saddles. It is amazing how different they can look.

No doubt Joe. They can look very different but there aren't many that I don't like!

Here is a NY locale animal that looks very different.

Dave

DNS Reptiles

Another nice snake Doug. Very impressive collection . Love looking at your photos. I need to start posting some myself and stop being lazy!!

Nice big blotches. I have to either fix or get a new camera soon..my pic taking is legendary,lol.

Thanks Jeff. This is the NY female I was telling you about the other night.

Dave

That female is indeed very clean.
It's nice to see that some people are working with easterns.

Tim

Third Eye

Thanks Tim. I meant to tell you, I was cleaning out the attic at my parents house over Thanksgiving and found some very old Notes from NOAH publications and your name was pasted all over it! I got a kick out of that.

Dave

Coming in late here, but....

Very nice Dave, nice looking locality pair. I like the checkered belly of the first t. triangulum shown.

-Dell

from where I'm from, Central Florida...we call these guys Red Rat snakes!

Just kidding...but they do look very similar.

Nice pics Dave and everyone!

-Rusty

One of my '08 Juvies chowing down..

Don't know why, but my Easterns are my favorite snakes.

The pictures are all great guys!
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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
------------------------------------------------------------>>>>>>>>>>
1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cain" Rescued from a crack house
0.1.9 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmella" adult super sweet temperment (Eggs all hatched!)
1.3.13 Storeria dekayi - Brown Snakes Casper, Xena, Athena, Copper, Sharon & Kids
0.1.0 Thamnophis cyrtopsis Easter Black Neck Garter "MoJo"
0.2.0 Thamnophis ordinoides - Northwestern Gartersnake(Blue Phase)
1.1.0. Thamnophis elegans vagrans Wandering Garter
2.2.0 Thamnophis Sirtalis - Florida Blue stripe Garter
2.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters
0.0.1 Thamnophis HybridAlbino Checkered Normal eastern"Mutt"
2.0.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters (xtreme orange phase)
1.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow Het
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Christmas Albino
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - Red Phase Eastern Garter red and white stripes
0.0.1 Thamnophis butleriButler's Garter Snake
0.0.4 Thamnophis proximus orariusCoastal Ribbons
0.0.7 Thamnophis sirtalis - Eastern Garter babies 7/11/08
0.0.7 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis HET Anerythristic Scott Felzer stock.
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis Eastern Snow "Snowflake"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis California Red Sided (R.I.P. little guy)
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua" adult WC Pink eater!
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Sub-adult CB
1.0.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Limon"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Getting Huge!
1.1.3. Green Anole "Crystal" & "Chris"
0.1.0 Oscar (Astronotus ocellatus) - "Peach" (A Monitor with fins)
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
2.1.0. calico RATS
??.??.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish / Giant roaches
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

Around here there are people who know a little about snakes so when they find a milk its often mis-IDd as a corn....

I love easterns, but my first experience has been less than stellar. I have been force-feeding my juvy for a few months now and it shows no signs of taking her own pink yet.
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1.0 C/B Brooks
0.1 C/B Pueblan
0.0.1 W/C Scarlet King
0.0.1 W/C Eastern Milk
0.0.1 W/C Yellow Rat
0.0.1 W/C Western Garter
1.0 C/B Black Lab
1.0 C/B Min. PoodleXAmer. Eskimo hybrid
1.0 C/B Goofy Cat
1.2 C/B Children
0.1 W/C wife

Is it at least taking tails volunarily yet? You should be increasing the frequency of tails, decreasing in size if needed. By now you should have the water beside ready to dunk it(it doubles as a soaker). I have had the best luck with 2-3 day old soaked tails as they have began to break down a bit and are less likely to be regurged. Dont get discouraged, but realize this is some of the reason why easterns and most other NA milks arent bred in quantity.

no, not taking anything voluntarily. I have only been giving it tails once per week since it's winter. I have noticed it tries to swallow it himself, but has trouble. Is it OK to feed the tail fat end first? I am worried it is the way that the hair lies which may cause the trouble.

I added some moss under the warm hide with some good moisture, yet it always goes back to underneath it's water bowl (he is only about 5-6 inches long). It's a labor of love for sure!
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1.0 C/B Brooks
0.1 C/B Pueblan
0.0.1 W/C Scarlet King
0.0.1 W/C Eastern Milk
0.0.1 W/C Yellow Rat
0.0.1 W/C Western Garter
1.0 C/B Black Lab
1.0 C/B Min. PoodleXAmer. Eskimo hybrid
1.0 C/B Goofy Cat
1.2 C/B Children
0.1 W/C wife

EASY STEPS--
For such a small guy you will want 2 fuzzy tail TWICE a week. Its more intensive and it gets him used to being "roughed up". And OF COURSE you start large end first! Lets go back:

1-soak tails-fuzzy size has more fat which break down quicker
2-Have a water bowl large enough to immerse the snake near
3-tap the snakes mouth til he opens
4-insert and spin tail down 2/3 and hold snake under water
5-remove from water and lightly massage throat
6-without putting the snake down release head and see if they either--A)regurge-wo which you repeat the procedure or B)start chewing their way to the end of the tail. You are golden!

Now the snake may refuse to take that last half inch and you cant leave it like that or it will regurge. What I do is, with rounded small forceps, grab the tail and insert it into the snakes throat just past the head(be careful when releasing the forceps obviously). When the whole tail is in and they are reimmersed in water they almost always hold the tail down.

Steadily increase the amount of tail, not necessarily the size. Its like kick starting an engine, you want to have something in its belly all the time. Rough handling helps, aggression may be lacking in picky feeders. Dont get discouraged, dont run out of tails, dont have too many of these types of babies or it will make you nuts.

4-insert and spin tail down 2/3 and hold snake under water ...

hold them under water? thats nuts imho,,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

I have seen this described before, and it's not indicating you should submerge the whole snake, just about 2/3. I have also been told to get the snake moving forward and he will swallow instinctively. It works on mine.

Thanks for the tutorial, Jeff
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1.0 C/B Brooks
0.1 C/B Lavender brooks
0.0.1 W/C Scarlet King
0.0.1 W/C Eastern Milk
0.0.1 W/C Yellow Rat
0.0.1 W/C Western Garter
1.0 C/B Black Lab
1.0 C/B Min. PoodleXAmer. Eskimo hybrid
1.0 C/B Goofy Cat
1.2 C/B Children
0.1 W/C wife

I've found that very few will attempt to try and expel the meal while they are still being held because they are more concentrated on getting out of your hand. In my experience if I calmly hold them they eventually relax and start swallowing. The few that do not I've found water to be helpful in the following manner.

Dip a finger (from your free hand) into the water so that a small drop is suspended from the tip and touch the drop to the neonate's mouth. This small amount of water will flow into he snakes mouth and will induce a swallowing response. This is about 100% effective but I use it only as a last resort because I feel like its almost water boarding the animal.
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Darwin Rocks!

When you have the tail most of the way down the natural instinct(for those not voluntarily taking tails)is to regurge. Holding the snake under water forces it to clear the airway(swallow voluntarily)to allow for air. The chances of a snake regurging when "forced" this way is minimal. Try it out and I think you will change your tune....

This might work but it seems overly traumatic for the animal. I've been tease feeding coastal for years and I simply restrain the snake until it starts to swallow. In my experience, with very little exception, they only try to expel the tail if you put them down too early.
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Darwin Rocks!

thats completely over the top for stress jeff and quite simply is borderline cruel imho. i sure hope you stop such nonsense.
as for anyone else following this thread.
sometimes tails can be succesful for getting tiny babies to eat something but realize jeffs method is WAY to stressfull and that stress kills.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Thomas, ff a tail can be stressful on any snake I agree. But the truth is once it is induced to the water the "stress" goes away, it moves from the regurge process to the need to breath...and they actually RELAX! They stop struggling, they let you finish massaging the tail down the throat and THEY DONT REGURGE. If they were truely stressed they would regurge every time, they dont. I think its not the water but the IDEA of the water as a foreign environment that flicks the switch and they stop struggling. Of course you have to know how to ff a tail without hurting the snake first, but soaking the tails for at least a day helps that. Like I said, please try it first.

for me to try it. amazing, dont try this at home kids.
so you actually soak the tails for 24hrs beforehand i would imagine that strips away what little nutrition there is them.
sad stuff jeff very sad indeed its no wonder your success with ltt is F1's after working with them what for 10yrs?
poor lil milksnakes;( ,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Soaking them, aging them, makes them more tender and easier to digest. Simple to figure. "Losing nutrition", never happens, in fact they gain water weight and with baby snakes weight is everything. Its taken me 10 years(and I know you know this wise guy)because I had my whole collection STOLEN from me by someone I met here! When that happens you have to start over from scratch(in case it happens to you)FYI. I find it surprising how you judge so much that you dont know....and in case you dont think it works I got pics to prove it~~

geez dried fecal matter and old sheds come'on.
perhaps if you changed/improved your husbandry/conditions you wouldnt have to ff tails that have been soaked in water leeching all nutrients from them not to mention the flagelettes and bacterium that grow in flesh(tails) that are soaked in water.
poor poor lil ltt ;0,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

np