Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all-

I posted this snake below in my "Pet Shop" thread, but I wanted to bring the issue up again and officially ask for opinions on whether this snake is a striped annectans or catenifer. My original thought when I bought it was annectans, but in light of the catenifer Al just posted, I'm having second thoughts. Ideas?

Good question. My guess is made purely because of the snake's light base color, and the variation in it (not great criteria, I know). I've seen that in annectens, but not in catenifer.

reako45

Good question. My guess is made purely because of the snake's light base color, and the variation in it (not great criteria, I know). I've seen that in annectens, but not in catenifer.

reako45

Good comment reako!

There's something about the tail pattern that leans me toward catenifer,but then again the abberancy in the patterning may also be playing a part in that!?

RGDS.......AL

Is this snake catenifer or annectans? good question but there is only one way to know and that is to do a DNA work up. Because it is pet store snake and not wild collected you do not have any locality based info to use, and because it is a pet store snake you do not have any reliable breeder info to base an ID on. In the pet trade many animals that are heterozygous for a trait such as hypo melanistic or albino end up with lower sale value and get dumped on the pet store circuit. it was not uncommon for people to breed their applegate albino annectans animals to striped phase catenifer to get striped albino mutts. This has been going on for a while so there are alot of them out there. Also, keep in mind that the traits that distiguish catenifer from annectans overlap. In other words the saddle count range may be 21 to 26 for one subspecies and 25 to 30 for the other, (not actual numbers but given to make example).

The striped phase is most commonly seen in some populations of the nominant form catenifer but again there has been so much crossing. About as close as you will ever get realistically is that the snake is either catenifer or annectans and maybe/probably a mix.

Unless your pet store guy is really on top of things like the folks at Amazon reptiles you will always end up with issues like this.

And of course if I buy a snake that is misrepresented, breed it and sell the offspring calling them what I was told they were the myth gets perpetuated.

Its a nice looking snake but you should always consider it a mutt when and if you choose to breed it to something.

Sorry about the soap box but you did asked!

And in other news Las Vegas man photographed using new and experimental bonding technique with wild tortoises

Are those designations even valid?
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Darwin Rocks!

Hi yani,

I'm in two minds myself to be honest,maybe three minds after talking onboard ginter's comments,notably the poss of a annectans x catenifer specimen.

I will email you some more pics for comparison etc.

RGDS......AL

It looks more like a Catenifer to me, but thats just my opinion.

Is a here is a pic of a catenifer and annectan together.
Now the annectan has bolder stripers and if you notice the background striping as well.
Catenifers dont have that background striping! Catenfier's tend to have more speckled in there striping too.

Catenifers striped gene is co-dominate and annectans striped gene is a simple recessive. So remember that if you ever breed that animal, that might be the easiest way to find out.

I dig the yellow colors that animal has great looking snake.

Jason

Thanks Jason.

That was the answer I was looking for...

I have a question for you. Are the anery and albino genes in your catenifer animals borrowed from annectans, or did they originate with wc catenifer animals? I'm sure I've heard of albino catenifer being found...

I got my founding stock from Joe Peirce back in 96 at a San Diego Show. Now weather they were brorrowed from annectans, I am not sure. I was told they were pure catenifer's and Joes wife told me a story how they found the a anery catenifer in the wild. Weather that is true or not, I dont know but I have took their word on it!

I would have believed anything Joe's wife said.She was HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the snake yani has is a cross.
L8r

I know! Joe tried talk to me but I didn't hear a word he said. But she sure had my attention!!! Yeah baby.

That snake could be a cross. Like Ginter says' there has been alot cross breeding between those 2 subspecies.

anil8or

Jason

How inappropriate of you both. (Got any pics of her?)
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Mark

LOL, it was pre digital cam day for me.I wish I did though.
L8r