Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Wanted to gain some information. I've only work w. albinos and pieds, bought a hatchling bumblebee a few weeks ago. He is now showing signs of rolling, doing all sorts of loops with his upper body while hanging out in his cage. Still totally functional, eats great although misses on first second and third strike usually.
1- Is this perminent? I won't breed if he will pass down the gene, does anyone know if this is hereditary or random w. spiders and spider off shoots. Would his parents have shown signs? Right now I am just trying to feed him every five days and grow him fast in hopes he grows out of it.

Thanks for reading. I've had a few hook ups out of my double het albino pied that I'm pretty excited about, regretting my venture into the world of the spider pattern.

From my understanding of spiders. Some breeders out there think all spiders to some degree have the wobblin or spinning and some think its a random occurence in the morph.
To all the breeders out there please correct me if I am wrong, But I think the amount of wobblin or spinning is random in the offspring that the parents produce.

I wonder if the neuro symptoms are noticed only in the individuals with the dominant spider pattern or ever also in individuals of the lineage...spider pattern or not .
Probably sounds paranoid but I come from being very vigilant of genetic problems in breeding dogs and or cats .
Toni

...regretting my venture into the world of the spider pattern

I, too, had the same regret in early 2007 and quickly got rid of my male Bumblebee (and he was as normal as spider morphs come--he exhibited none of the neurological symptoms people often describe; although, it is claimed they all have it to some degree). Basically, non-wobblers can produce wobblers ad wobblers can produce non-wobblers. Some have it out of the egg and it diminishes to an extent, and some are perfectly fine out of the egg and develop it later one. Some have it out of the egg and it never goes away (or gets worse) and... well... you see where this is going.

Despite the fact my Bumblebee never once showed any signs (and he was feeding and growing perfectly), it is clear to the hobby that this neurological disorder is ALWAYS (to some degree) pleiotropically linked to the spider mutation. Hence why I got the hell out of spiders, as I cannot in good conscience perpetuate such an obvious disorder. It is simply against MY moral/ethical code. Others need not be of the same persuasion. A shame, really, because I still love the looks of the spider.

Well said, sounds like I bought a very expensive fancy pet ball python! I'll learn as he growns I guess and likely not breed him. He is certainly 'special'. Back to the albino pieds.

All animals have imperfections. Some Spiders it's just easier to spot. Pros: Pattern and color mutation. Eats aggressively and breeds young. Does amazing things to other morphs. Cons: can sometimes have head wobbles or cork screwing. I have never heard of a Spider that didn't thrive. They sometimes just look goofy while thriving. Claude

Sad that above post bashing spiders and bees.. I'll take all your female spiders snd Bees.. Some people don't have a clue. out of hundreds and Hundreds, Ive only seen 2 show signs and they grew out of it. My spiders ,Bee's and Spinnerblast's are all doing great.... It really makes me wounder were newbies get there info or how long someone keeps a bee, and says wow he's spinning I better sell him fast. What a joke!!!

Van
http://www.myspace.com/gregvanzweden

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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

just collecting info. Fact- wobbels and rolling are a neurological disorder. I've heard from a lot of people they grow out of it, so hoping mine does the same. Also a fact, spider is the key ingrediant to some of my favorite morphs, so by no means am I discrediting them.

Just FYI - There is no evidence that the spinning is "in fact" neurological -- there is more evidence that it is most likely hormonal/chemical.
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Tosha
JET Pythons
Toshas Blog

Maybe I am a bit confused, but did you get rid of your Spider and get a BumbleBee? If that is the case, I wouldn't plan to breed your Bee, ecause you will produce offsping with the wobble. I have a BumbleBee that spins, a Spinner that spins and a HoneyBee that spins. The funny thing is that my original Spider never showed signs, and none of the offspring(Spiders) that I kept showed signs. I have had a few customers tell me that some of the Spiders they bought from me developed the wobble after they had them for a while.

I guess what I was really trying to say in this post is that if one is morally against breeding Spiders because of the wobble, or just against owning one all together, then they need to saty away from any morph containing Spider, because the wobble cannot be masked or bred out by creating designer Spider mutations.
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Tim and Monica Bailey
Bailey & Bailey Reptiles

My Albino Spider has done it its whole life. He calmed down a bit from when he was a baby but still moves weird from time to time. He eats and breeds like a champ. I almost froze him when he was younger cause I thought it was something else. He is on his second season and eats/breeds. I would not worry if yours is eating and breeding. Just my opinion.

how have his babies turned out? are they showing any signs as hatchlings or yearlings?

I actually hatched out a good number of spiders het albino and not one had any issues. No wobbles no shakes, no rolling. All they do is bite and eat. I think the combos may cause some extra wobbles if the snakes are line bred. Even so I do not know too many people who have spiders that wobble that end up dieing from it.

I don't have any problems with mine as well, but I check him for it everytime I get him out. I hope it never shows.
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