Reptile & Amphibian Forums

He is my record. I bought a het. pied female that was a very bad feeder. She was two years old and only weighed 925 grams. I was hoping to get her up to size for the season but it looked like it would not happen. I feel all my females for follicles and felt three in her. I figured what the heck..... if she is producing follicles I might as well throw my pied in with her. They locked up and two weeks later BAM!!! Ovulation. I was hoping to get at least one female pied, I got three good eggs. 1.1 Pieds and 0.1 het pieds. I attached a picture of her daughter. After that clutch she started to eat better than ever and now weighs a whopping 1400 grams. Maybe I should not have bred her but I did and it was worth it in my opinion. I have some pieds and a good feeding snake now. Thanks for looking.

congrats and great odds.Glad your girl is eating and getting bigger.

Now that's a happy ending! Great story. Thanks for sharing.

Casey
Casey Lazik Reptiles

Congratulations!! Obviously a good decision on your part. I just hope this post doesn't give other people who don't know what to look for bad ideas!! LoL. That baby girl is beautiful!! Congratulations again!
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

So what is most important here? The age, weight, or the follicular development? I have a female that will be in the same situation this year. She is currently right at 900g and will turn two in March. She unfortunately went off of feed her first winter and has been a picky eater ever since. I have yet to palpate her because in my opinion her weight is just too low. I have another girl who is just over 1200g and is the same age, she will be tried after a couple more meals.
I guess to me it seems like the presance of healthy, developing folicles is the important thing sort of like sperm plugs in males. Just curious as to what everyone else thinks.
-Bryce

Personally I want a females first clutch to be as good as possible. It seems that this sets the trend for that female in terms of production in the years to follow.

If you breed a 2 year old female at 1000g and get 4 eggs you probably won't get much over 6 eggs for awhile from that female.

Whereas if you breed a 3 year old female at 2000g and get 8 eggs you'll probably get 8-10 eggs a year from her.

In the long run I think that waiting it out for a female's 3rd winter and 1500 grams is worth it.

My best example of this is an axanthic girl I have. She was 1500g her 2nd winter and I chose not to breed her. She was 2200g her 3rd winter and laid 10 eggs for me (1 egg died shortly after). Ever since she's been a 9 egg snake year after year. This year she's the biggest she's ever been at 3300g and I'm hoping for a nice sized clutch.

I say wait it out and get more "bang for your buck". I think the pros of waiting outweigh the cons.

Hope that helps

>>So what is most important here? The age, weight, or the follicular development? I have a female that will be in the same situation this year. She is currently right at 900g and will turn two in March. She unfortunately went off of feed her first winter and has been a picky eater ever since. I have yet to palpate her because in my opinion her weight is just too low. I have another girl who is just over 1200g and is the same age, she will be tried after a couple more meals.
>> I guess to me it seems like the presance of healthy, developing folicles is the important thing sort of like sperm plugs in males. Just curious as to what everyone else thinks.
>>-Bryce
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John Dague
JD Constriction
www.jdconstriction.com

Totaly agree and I beleive breeding small females somewhat stunts their growth.

There are no exact answers for this type of question. I have had picky feeders, that stay that way year after year. A few rats, some gerbils and some ASF rats. I have had some of these become good feeders after breeding. The post said that this snake is now a much better feeder. Just introducing a male sometimes makes a female eat better.
Mike

Nothing is ever as easy or cut and dried

I've had a couple picky feeders that on their 3rd winter and under 1500g I'd breed them. Just like you said the male can stimulate feeding and if they lay sometimes they come back with a big gusto for feeding!

Regardless personally I'd give animals the year off and try them on her 3rd winter if they were less than 1500g. More of an investment in the future thing for me I guess? And I'd like to think my patience pays off

900g really isn't too shabby for an 07, 1200 is better , but it isn't bad.

Great discussion!

>>There are no exact answers for this type of question. I have had picky feeders, that stay that way year after year. A few rats, some gerbils and some ASF rats. I have had some of these become good feeders after breeding. The post said that this snake is now a much better feeder. Just introducing a male sometimes makes a female eat better.
>>Mike
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John Dague
JD Constriction
www.jdconstriction.com

Same here that female below, the spider eats Rats as of 1 week after laying eggs. And is getting bigger. Not much ,but enough to say she'll do better and give 6 eggs this season."~

Van
http://www.myspace.com/gregvanzweden

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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

Congrats. Like Mike said, there is nothing set in stone. The male Ball pythons in the wild don't place the females on a scale to see if they are ready to breed or not. And I doubt the males are counting birthdays either! lol
Once again Congrats and enjoy your pieds!!!

Shawn
www.twistedconstrictors.com

I would just like to add that I am not urging breeders to use 2 years old and 1000g as their standard. Or for a new breeder to go out and buy a 10 lot of 900-1000g females to get a jump on breeding. I personally dont use weight/age as a guideline. I use mass and conditioning of the female. A long skinny female weighing 1800 grams may get a year off while a shorter female weighing 1350 grams will get breed. I prefer a heavier bodied female over a long slender female even though her gram weight and age may say she is ready to breed.
This is why I am such a fan of these forums. If someone has a question and unsure of the answer, they can post an add on a forum and get great advice. Which allows breeders to make more educated decisions with there collection and to gain knowledge and expierience!! We have all started somewhere.

WOW, nice. IMO i think that you got lucky. I MAY be OCD but i am a FIRM believer in 3 years OR 1200 grams. Its kind of like a car warranty, what ever comes first.

under 1200 grams I BELIEVE that you took a risk. It paid off for you and your girl has even bounded back and became a strong feeder for you. I SAY count your blessings.

Lets hope that this thread doesnt inspire NEWER "breeders" to rush their girls along. HINT HINT!

OH and by the way, i am COMPLETELY jealous of your perfect pied odds!
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Thanks
Chad Ramsey

Great advice everyone! I may try the introducing a male on the smaller girl as she has always been a picky feeder, but the other girl is a beast. The 1200 gram female would easily be 1500, but she was underweight when I got her so no males until she is ready. I think this is a really good discussion, I have never heard of introducing a male as a trick for older picker feeders, but it makes sense. Thanks and great pieds by the way!
Bryce

I bred a 3an ahalf Year old Spider to a Lemonblast Male, She was more long then thick,not like most spiders are. Bad eater and only ate One mouse at a time per week. She just didn't want to chow like most spiders do..

Her weight was 1225 grams when bred, I got 3 good eggs and 1 Dud. But look what she gave Me.!! Its one of the best Ball Morphs I produced this Season, My SpinnerBlast. Triple D and his parents.

Ma n Pa...The Dad was around 600grams in this Photo

Van
http://www.myspace.com/gregvanzweden

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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

Van, thing is insane!!!