Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey folks I could use some thoughts here.The mice are kickin but the rats won't raise.Heres the specs,feed is purina 5663 23% protein.bedding is an extruded pellet which turns to sawdust,plus I treat them with shedded paper for nest material,
tubs are mortar pans in slide rack covered by 1/2 inch wire with feed always available,water quality is fresh and supplied by pressure to individual nipples to each tub,We recently installed new polyflow tubing,thinking water related..Their kept suffiently
clean..We replaced NEAR the entire colony with younger models and still no production.Theres blacks with white,black and white hooded,reds and hooded,whites and siamese/brownnosers..We've never had this trouble before and are puzzled..Their not inbred,
the conditions have the mice happy..Pregnancies are few and far
between,litter sizes are poor and then they eat them before you know it.All we can think of is STRESS which their given me now..
Puzzled..Please throw your thoughts our way.

Neglected to mention the tubs contain 1 male 2 females brought up together to avoid any controversy..

Rotate the males!

Every cleaning move each male to the next cage in sequence. Gestation is about a month, 21-28 days. If you keep track of the rotations and pregnancies you'll see which males are lame.

Females are useless after 2 yrs of age, males sperm production decreases after a year or so but is still viable.

Good Luck
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile
Specializing in Boa Morph's

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

I think it's time to change your username from "luckydog" to "un-luckydog." Seems that luck has left you. Ha! Ha!

Seems to me that there may be something else besides what you've mentioned that's causing your problems. I personally don't see anything in what you've mentioned that could cause such a wide spread problem.

Unless you've been using tainted bags of Mazuri's 5663 (not likely) I seriously doubt it's a part of the problem you're having. I suggest not changing it, at the moment, at least. (I don't think you feel it's the problem, either, just wanted to make sure.)

As Jeremy (Bighurt) mentioned, swapping males around and keeping records can help identify problem males. And subtly mentioned in Jeremy's reply is how rats aren't as peculiar about cage mates as mice are. They don't have to be raised together and most always adjust just fine when introduced on neutral turf (usually during replacement of bedding, which eliminates scented/marked territories) regardless of their age.

I suppose there's a chance that somehow you ended up with a genetically bad group of males. Could age be a factor?

Small litter sizes usually indicate age and/or viability of the breeders. With both males & females. Non-production can also indicate the same.

I've found stress to be the leading cause of issues with breeders that meet typical age & health guidelines. Stressed females will eat their young, especially in crowded cages. However, it doesn't sound like overcrowding is a factor in your case. I keep 1:3 (M/F) in the smaller size mixing tubs without any problems.

So many things can/will cause stress. Dirty cages will reduce or stop production quick.

What are the conditions of the area that the rack is in? Temps, humidity, activity, noise, odors, etc...?

Best wishes, you "un-luckydog"!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

to hot or too cool can decrease breeding.

Ive had best luck with males 6 to 18 months of age, younger or older I get small litters even from females who normally have bigger ones. And I breed most of my females 4 to 12 months of age
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1.1.0 YBS
1.3.0 RES
1.0.0 red belly cooter
1.0.0 Fire belly toad
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor
0.0.1 Blackthroat monitor
0.1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.1.0 Mountain Horned dragon
2.1.0 Ball pythons
cats, dog, ferrets, rabbit, rats.

Hehe, nope still one luckydog.it's gotta be stress someway..
Conditions are fine otherwise..most of them are just maturing although I did hold back a few tubs of elders,not old though..got a litter today, I'd guess and say 8-12 pups we'll see how long they last..We're not beginners and have bred and fed thousands..which is why we're so puzzled..As stated the mice are kickin..genetics on the rats are too diverse to put blame there..Never had to rotate before and don't care to although its
not a bad idea..record keeping is for the snakes, as J stone said in a previous thread "feeders"..
Thanks Guys,
T Mead

possible casues of stress that are 'outside the box'

Ultra sonic noise...a balast going out in a florescent light in the room will do it, insufecienty light cycle check your bulbs
also if you have one of those 'rodent repellers' the type that are suposed to make critters leave a area because of ultra sonic vibrations will throw off rodents, and birds alike

a heavy cockroach infestation, or mites, or even ants in the area at night pestering the rats might be makeing there lives miserable so they dont want to breed.

just my $0.02

Herptophile
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To you im just the crazy snake guy, but to some I'm a 'Herper'.

Thanks Bud,
You may be on to something.This is a new home for us and thats when it all started..Your a herper for sure.
TNT Mead.