Reptile & Amphibian Forums

For anyone who prefers not to get bummed out at this festive time of the year, please skip over this post. Mostly I'm probably addressing this to the older forum denizens whose memories reach back far enough to remember the last time the economy really tanked (let's say 1978 - 1981).

I’ve been considering what the worst consequence of the bad economy could be for the ratsnake hobby. My guess is that species (and special types) with very few breeders in the hobby might disappear altogether from the market. In addition, because of the increasing legislation in many parts of the world (Europe especially) that prohibits collection and sale, that it might not be possible in the future to get these species back.

I was curious whether anyone else had been thinking along these lines. And if so, which species or types of ratsnakes would you guess are most at risk of disappearing from the hobby in the next couple of years?

I’ll go out on a limb and guess eastern foxsnakes (gloydi), aesculapean ratsnakes (longissima) and ladder ratsnakes (scalaris).

Of course I hope I’m 100% wrong but I’m guessing that financial problems will force some people to move and/or give up the hobby. When that happens I’m guessing that the least well represented species will be most at risk to eventually die out.
What do you think?

Regards
John

Thats a great point so what i'v been doing is buying rare snakes and waiting to breed them. so start by droppin corns and doing rar stuff

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1.0.0 Taiwan Beauty Snake
2.1.0 Black Rat Snake
1.1.0 Corn Snake
1.0.0 Common Garter Snake
0.1.0 Northern Water Snake
0.1.0 Black Racer
0.1.0 Black Widow
0.1.0 Wolf Spider

I think you may be right in some ways, but consider this: The poor economy will weed out the people who are only in it for the money, and those of us who are in for the love of the snakes can only benefit from that. If that means some breeders of rare snakes will be lost, so be it...if they only care about the money the animals might be suffering anyways...and we can hope they sell those rare snakes to someone who will appreciate them more than baby makers.

The people who really have snakes in their blood will still be here when this is all over.

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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

...that is one screaming Baird's! Got more pics?

Thanks! That's my male hwy277

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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

Amen! I agree!,I plan to breed a few of my corns.If I get stuck with some offspring,so be it.Most of them get better with age anyway! Jeff

Jeff if you breed the oaks put me on the list for a trio. My fiancee is interested in revs too.
Tom

You might be right.. Maybe you should encourage more interest in those species.
BTW, I just have never seen much excitement over E. gloydi.
despite economics.

Matthew

This is already happening. I've bought a couple different snakes this year because of "poor economy sales." People are hurting for cash, and can't afford to keep their snakes.

We haven't even begun to see the problems we're going to face economically.

And for saying those of us who have snakes in our blood will still be here- true. But how many snakes will we be keeping when we have to choose between feeding our snakes and our children? Sure, breeding rodents is dirt cheap, and a lot of us do it. But what happens when bedding triples in price? Feeds are already going up. People have less and less free money to spend.

I see certain of things dying out more than anything else. So many morphs are so expensive, people who like those animals are going to buy normals, or cheaper morphs.

Ronnie Nocera

I suspect it will serve to simply weed out the fly by nights and those who are in this hobby for a buck...the serious folks might feel a pinch but I suspect that it will simply be a blip on the radar...

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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

I won't give up the hobby now for anything..

Matthew

Ronnie: I don't see the morph craze as all that positive myself. To me a natural phase cornsnake is as beautiful as it gets. The morph people are just in it for the money. I'd nuch rather breed locality animals to preserve their looks than something never seen in nature..

Matthew
IMHO only of course

Me, I keep a decent variety of snakes, most of which are corns and only three of them are normals. I really dislike most normal corns, with some exceptions of course... so I have mostly morphs and like to specialize in diffuseds and lavenders.

But I am most definately NOT in it for the money... I have to admit I used to see it as a way to possibly make some money, but have since learned my lesson. I will continue to breed morphs for myself and myself only and have even gotten a few ball morphs, again, for my own enjoyment.

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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

What? After that beauty up there Randy Posted? It doesn't get better than the classic Okeete Corn. But that is my taste, after all. Yours may differ, of course...

Matthew

I totally agree. I wish there were more locallity animals out there for sale. Although there are more now than there used to be.
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Matt Kauffman

Yeah, it was that kind of breeding that saved the 'Glades Rats from oblivion. Fortunately for us herpers..

Matthew

I'm glad I kept my Delaware Corns and still breed them today. They get big and are very beautiful. I have nothing against the various morphs but there's something about a naturally occurring color phase that I find both intriguing and moving. Between the Delware Corns, Oregon Cals, Kentucky Northerns and Canadian Bulls, I guess I've become something of a "boutique" breeder, to borrow a term from my fellow bassists.

Bart

Bart:
The best case is where snake keepers are working with what they value for its own sake. Then they're most likely to keep it going during trying times. But I still think that a deep economic recession is the point at which good lines of herps get lost. I hope I'm wrong, but stuff happens when times are bad.

Best regards
John

John,

I disagree. If anything, tough times separate the wheat from the chaff. The real herpers always survive, the wannabes will fall by the wayside.

Bart

John,

Just cross your fingers & hope I guess. It still blows my mind what's available these days in rare & unusual species. I even owned a Connant's milksnake a few years ago but it escaped ( I'm Tri-color challenged!). Hopefully, if its in-country its being bred somewhere..

Matthew

NP

This is the alternative I see:

1) In general the cost of keeping breeding and shipping animals will go up.

2) As availible funds to buy snakes deminishes prices across the bored will follow.

3) Given increased production cost and decreasing return people will stop producing the more common forms.

4) Rare forms will provide a better margin and will persist as a commodity for a longer period.

All in all I think people will be keeping fewer animals and perhaps giving them better care.

I also think that there will be a move towards larger display type cages. If this is the case I think some of the more active and showy species will gain in popularity over ones that hide all the time.

Anyway just my two cents. Good thread though.
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Darwin Rocks!

morphs are never going away, just look at the ball and boa people, aint gonna happen.

I think people are just going to breed less if they realize they cannot sell babies. That's what I experienced this past summer and is the reason why I do not have any huge plans this coming season.

Prices will always go up, that is a fact.
The economy will get better, it always does.
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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com