Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey All: Haven't been here for sometime as things have been going very smoothly with the boxies since last years first ever outdoor hibernation here in SC.

Well, this year we are running into some issues and are not sure what to do, if we should do anyhting, if they will do it on their own etc...

Our enclosure last winter was fine event free, this winter we are encountering flooding issues in a certain lower right corner which houses one of our boxies. The temps here have been very mild to the high 20's I would say...turts stopped eating late Oct early Nov and the one that is haveing the flooding issue on his side went down first (which is normal for him).

The upper level of the enclosure doesn't seem to be having an issues as it is on the upper end of the "slope" we call a yard...LOL!

The side we are having issue with is the lower side and seemingly only one side...I have located and pulled the turt out twice to check on him and make sure all was well...aside from being rather mud covered he was alert, his eyes were clear, nostrils were clear etc...(keep in mind) we do cover portions of the enclosure with plywood so that when it rains the enclosure is not just subjest to being soaked)he was in the middle of the enclosure where he likes to go...so I put him back there, but then got nervous and refound him and placed him somewhere else in a drier part of the enclosure...which I guess is not good to do as they instinctively know how to "pick" their spots.

So a week or so went by and we had another round of rain and some more "flooding" (now when I say flooding there are not pools of water, but the dirt/clay is very wet and heavy and basically like a mud pit)...I again went on a search to make sure he was ok, located him again in a different drier spot but close t his stomping ground and again pulled him out, same thing mud caked all over his shell and stuff, eyes and nostrils clear...

Last nigh we had heavy rains again

He went back down and we had another bought of storms, this time due t the early darkness we get we will most likely not be able to locate him until Sat...the temps have been very miled and when I have located him in the past he is dug down at least 6-10" so I believe he is below the frost line as well as I believe we do have a cold front setting in.

At this juncture I am at a loss as to what to do, do we pull them both and try and set up something indoors (fridge hibernation), build a set up indoors and not hiberbate them at all (they did have a few winters like this and things were ok) or leave it up to them that if it gets to wet they will relocate themselves to a drier area?? But the only issues I have with the latter is what if we do start to get cold and they are into a deep sleep and do not move themselves....

Any help is appreciated!!

Malinda

Hi Malinda,
Do you have any leaves piled in the enclosure? In the wild, most box turtles hibernate under deciduous trees in the woods where there are heavy layers of fallen leaves over the ground. If you mound leaves a foot deep or so, they really don't even need to dig below the surface of the dirt, they just plow under the insulation blanket formed by the leaves. Any rain water will run off without pooling around the turtle. If he digs into a low spot in the mud that gets waterlogged and then freezes, he could freeze to death when the ground freezes into essentially a big ice cube around him. I always pile up oak and maple leaves and pine needles and they dig under them and hardly penetrate the soil. You can use straw if you don't have access to leaves. Good luck.
Mark

Hey Mark:

Thanks for the reply, yes we have put about 4 bags of leaves on each side of the enclosure! So thereis about a foor or so of leaves in there...we are thinking of adding more leaves to it so there is about 2-2.5 feet covering each side.

One of my turts goes down probably only a few inches, but the turt on the side with the problem goes down more than that porbablt 6-10", not sure if I am concerned about the ground freezing, not too likely this will happen as he is under the frost line when he is dug in.

It has also been apparent by the last spot he chose that he seems to possibly be moving himself around anything that may be "too wet"...

But what does one do with a turt the likes "to burrow" himself in...the leave thing is not a problem we can add alot more...but we can't control him going down you see...it also hasn't been cold enough here yet for him to be totally out of it...temps today and tomorrow 65-70 degrees, Sat morning 29...and then it will warm up agan next week....

I just don't want him to drown....

But maybe we just have to let him be and hope for the best...

Malinda

P.S. If the pic comes out we are talking about that lower right hand corner of the bottom enclosure holding water and turning muddy....
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Trying pic again..
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I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't worry too much about drowning. The leaves are a good idea to prevent freezing. Many aquatic turtles hibernate in the mud at the bottom of ponds, where they don't take a breath for months. Of course they can't do this in the summer, where they have to surface regularly.

Of course I wouldn't purposefully set up a wet area for a hibernatin boxie, but if the leaves are on top, and things didn't freeze, I would think that he/she would be able to locate himself/herself accordingly.

The picture isn't working, so I can't get a feel for what you're describing. As long as he has access to areas that will drain off the rain and enough leaves to dig into, he should be OK. I was just afraid you only had bare ground for him to dig into, which can be a problem if it's too hard for him to penetrate or too low-lying to drain off rain water.

Thanks for the responses all!

No, no freezing and no they are not on bare ground, there are some areas of this enclosure that drain off where he can relocate to if he so chooses. Today is a sunny day the rain is gone so hopefully it will start to dry out...

We will be keeping a close eye on them during the rains though!!!

Thanks again,
Malinda

Sorry the pics did not come trhough can't seem to figure out how to attach them.

Malinda-you have probably gotten some good answers already and sorry if I'm repeating anything but the ideal spot to hibernate a box turtle is somewhere where it does not flood but is friable so the turtle can retreat as deeply as possible from the cold and wet. If this was my pen-on the very next day it is above 45 degrees-I would take my turtle out of his little mud pit and remove half the clay soil and amend the soil with a mixture of top soil, peat moss, leaf mulch and sand and add it to the pit.

This pit should be three feet deep. I have a picture of it in my new book, or you may have seen something similar on Stef Moore's Sulcata Station. If you don't get a good day to to it-cover the whole area with heavy gauge vinyl so falling rain will not enter the area and perhaps it will get less wet. In the spring-do the soil amemding and build the area up or move the pen to a more favorable position.

WHen building my pen we had a low area and I had to put in a french drain under the pen-it's about 2 feet under the surface of the pen and removes water quickly during rain storms. However I do not hibenrate the turtle in the pen but put them into an outbuilding and place them in a hibernation box. Picture attached. Good luck this winter!

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Tess Cook
www.boxturtlesite.info