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....Scotophis as the Latin genus moniker for the woodland rat snakes?
I was barely able to stomach Pantherophis!!

:Mark

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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

>>....Scotophis as the Latin genus moniker for the woodland rat snakes?
>> I was barely able to stomach Pantherophis!!
>>
>>:Mark
>>
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>>
no need to
only a suggestion by either one or one small group.
Nothing official
There was/is one good thing about pantherophis.
There did need to be a separation between new and old world species.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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Not like the person who came up with it isn't reputable, but he's (at least the last I heard) the only person in the scientific community to wants to use is. Two different books are switching over, and his own site switched over to the use of it. As far as I know, no one else has even acknowledged it.

>>no need to
>>only a suggestion by either one or one small group.
>>Nothing official
>>There was/is one good thing about pantherophis.
>>There did need to be a separation between new and old world species.
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>>Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
>>"Resistance is futile"
>>Jimmy Johnson
>>(Draybar)
>> Draybars Snakes

I prefer Pantherophis, easier to pronounce, has a better ring and it's the only name this guy responds too.

Sweeeet !!!!!!!!!!!!

It starts to get comical. I just call them obsoleta. Elaphe was good enough. We can hybridize guttata with a number of old world rats and even the MtDNA work shows a good family grouping for most of the OW and NW ratsnakes. I'm not sure whether Pituophis will be the next plateau on the naming landscape. Honestly I don't expect them to stabilize the nomenclature in my lifetime. They've got a hundred years more of biotechnology improvements to play around with. Wouldn't it be funny if in about 25 years we get back to obsoleta, quadrivitatta, lindheimeri, rossalleni and spilotes? Well grad students need something to justify their existence. It might as well be annoying. Otherwise we'd completely ignore them.
Regards
John

...what the heck is that John? Fox Snake, T-Rat, Jani??? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.

It's the Lemke line. Used to be raised by a fellow down in Texas. Here's a really light hatchling.

Regards
John

Thanks, really nice...would like to see more pics.

Thanks.

Here you go.

Regards
John

That's one handsome texas rat. I wish the ones I've caught here in sw Louisiana looked like that. Although, there could be one out there. Maybe this year I'll find one.
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Matt Kauffman

Thanks Matt. Good luck in the field. Funny thing is that someone told me that Lemke's breeders for this line came from Louisiana. I'd love to get feedback from LA on what the ratsnakes tend to look like around that state.
Regards
John

It's been a couple years since I've found one, but I havn't really been looking. This year I plan on getting out there a lot. I have caught some better than average ones in the past, but no pics. I kind of thought of them as run of the mill back then. Now I have a renewed interest in rat snakes, so I'll hopefully collect a nice pair.
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Matt Kauffman

Matt:
I look forward to photos and info on your field work. I remember earlier in the year Dwight Good put up photos of hypo and orange phase lindies. There is definitely some good variability in the texas ratsnake gene pool (not to mention the leucistics).
Best regards
John

I live in the Needville, Tx area (SW of Houston) I tend to find a lot of Tx Rats with a high proportion of red and/or orange on them. The juvies I've caught tend to be pretty normal colored though. Anyway, just thought I'd post as this was something I hadn't seen until I moved out that way.

Thanks for the info. Anytime you have photos of locale specific lindies I'd be glad to see them here.

Best regards
John

Thanks for the pics...very nice!

LOL

......to me it's an Elaphe obsoletus rossalleni.......

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LOL......

Let's just call them Elaphe again. Simple solution for hard problem! LOl

Matthew

>>....Scotophis as the Latin genus moniker for the woodland rat snakes?

Scotophis alleganiensis? A new species along with a resurrected genus?

JC is a cladist. His taxonomy puts at least 8 species in the mammalian genus Homo. Frankly, I'd ignore him. His work is not important to ours. We simply need to communicate. We do this with species, subspecies and localities. No genera are not important to us.

If I say lindeimeri you know the snake I am discussing. You are not better informed if I say Elaphe lindheimeri, Pantherophis lindheimeri, or Scotophis lindheimeri, are you?

If you say suboc you have not even used the full species name, yet I know exactly the snake in question. But add Elaphe, or Bogertophis or even another new genus Josephcollinsis and I get no new information. It is still a suboc.

So, back to my point. Ignore the cladists. They'll go away. Just like all taxonomic fads. The topic of classification and what name to use will never be settled amongst the scientists. There are arguments for any angle you wanna take. For us? Use the names we grew up with, knowing the kids will use the new ones. We will all be happy and all be informed, all without the cladists!

Using DNA we can resolve an individual from its sibling. Are we gonna try to name every individual a new species or genus because it is genetically unique and therefore simply must be a new species?

DNA study is not the be all end all holy grail of taxonomy. In fact it presents an entire new network of problems, partially illustrated in my example.

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