Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A good many breeders tell me that the "extreme" gene is hit or miss(Meaning two extreme parents don't always produce extreme offspring), with this in mind how can a snake be a quad het? Just because the gene appears to be recessive? How does one figure out the odds of two quad hets producing extreme offspring, and how do you determine what odds allows you to label a snake a quad?

Or is quad het referring to something else, like hybino?

Thanks,
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Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
My 2008 Care Sheet & The BRB Stats. Username: brb@kingsnake.com

Hi Jason,

We used the term Quad Het this year for babies we produced from our Extreme to Snow pairing. They are Het for Albino, Hypo, and Anerythristic, along with the possibility of producing Extremes. Nobody that we are aware of has an explanation for the Extreme characteristic as of yet, but it is a different appearance and thus the Quad term. We are always quick to point out that the Extreme characteristic has not been proven to be simple recessive. We actually floated the idea of calling them Extreme Line Triple Hets or Quad Hets on this forum and the responses we got were for Quad Hets. I hope this clears things up for you.
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Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

what defines a snake as being extreme hypo? I have two that to me look extreme but I have been told that they are not. Also what is mega? Dan
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Lampropeltis triangulum lover!!

Dan look at these pics to see the differences in a Normal, Hypo, and Extreme Hypo. The Normal is jet black. The Hypo seen with an Extreme Hypo has a reduction in black pigment, while the Extreme has a greater reduction in black pigment. Also, look at the Tricolor Extreme to see the nice red eyes. You have to be mindful of flash photography, which can make a Hypo look Extreme when it is not. The term mega has been used to describe a line of Extremes, but that is still being sorted out. There are Extreme Hypos, Ghosts, Quad Homozygous(Opals) and we may have an Extreme Hybino, but time will tell on the Hybino. The short answer to your question is a great reduction in black pigment and red eyes.

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Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Fantastic, thanks for the post. My pics are in the thread below. From what your post says, my tricolor and tangerine are both extremes. Both are grey (although not as grey as yours)and both have red eyes.I have a ghost that is dark grey and red eyes to but it has alot of the darker bands.
Imagine a vanishing pattern extreme tangerine hybino. Now that would be a stunning snake!
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Lampropeltis triangulum lover!!

Dan there are a few Vanishing Extremes out there and they are pretty nice. As far as your pictured below, the Tangerine looks to be an Extreme, but the Tricolor does not.
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Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Thanks for confirming that. The tangerine is from a pair produced from Mike Falcon. Dan
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Lampropeltis triangulum lover!!

>>Hi Jason,
>>
>>We used the term Quad Het this year for babies we produced from our Extreme to Snow pairing. They are Het for Albino, Hypo, and Anerythristic, along with the possibility of producing Extremes. Nobody that we are aware of has an explanation for the Extreme characteristic as of yet, but it is a different appearance and thus the Quad term. We are always quick to point out that the Extreme characteristic has not been proven to be simple recessive. We actually floated the idea of calling them Extreme Line Triple Hets or Quad Hets on this forum and the responses we got were for Quad Hets. I hope this clears things up for you.
>>-----
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Joe Exposito
>>Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
>>www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Thanks Joe,

I assumed A quad was simply another attached het such as extreme I just hoped that wasn't the case.

I like Extreme Line Triple Hets only because the name is more accurate. Correct me if I am wrong here but Quad implies that a quad to quad pairing would give you extremes and that wont always be the case and is very hard to predict. I guess this is why they are priced the way they are, not that bad imop.

What will it take to narrow down what is going on with the extreme gene other then time?
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Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
My 2008 Care Sheet & The BRB Stats. Username: brb@kingsnake.com

It may take a few more years to figure out what is going on with the Extremes. There are a number of breeding projects going on that may help, but then again they may not. Even when you breed an Extreme to a Normal Het for nothing to attempt to isolate the trait there are problems. The Extreme Hypos seem to produce Extreme and Non Extreme Hypos, so unless the Extreme to Normal projects produce a snake that has a new or different appearance than what we now have, I am not sure of how anybody will know if that trait has been isolated or not. You would then need to test breed the next generation, so you could be looking at 6 to 9 years or more and this still may not give us the answers we seek. Maybe DNA tests will one day solve the mystery. Who knows, but it will be fun trying to figure it out.
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Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Wow this is complex. So what your saying is, If I was to pair my extreme hypo pinner male to my hypo vanishing pattern female I may (just may) produce extremes? So id be best to pair it to my ghost too.
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Lampropeltis triangulum lover!!