Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I need instructions on how to house train a asian water monitor. I recently got him, still a bit scared of me but I got him just like....yesturday lol. Otherwise I gotta spend big bucks to buy him a large cage. I want to have him around the bathroom and the bathtub being his place of swimming. I'll place the heater near there, unsure now. He is still a baby but sometimes knowing what lies ahead early will help me set my plans straight.

Some Questions I had in mind. Any questions will be very appreciated. Thanks if any help comes.

1/ When should you begin house training a water monitor?
2/ Is there a way in which you can train it to go to the bathroom in a certain area?
3/ How do I make the bathtub warm for him constantly?

Other questions will arise later. Oh yeah another question cause I'm curious. How do you tell the sex of a water monitor?

Memory Of Max. 9/7/03. I'll Be Missing You.

I hope you have enough room to house the water.. They do get pretty large.

You should seriously think about building your own, I am currently taking on the challenge of building a cage for a BT I will be getting in just under 2 weeks. The cage size for it is 10'x5'x4'(LxWxH). Now, that's for a monitor that will possibly get to 6', for a water, you're looking a lot bigger.

I am new to monitors so I've had to improvise my blueprints as I've gone along. I ordered a pre-form pond as my water "dish." The pond is 11" deep which to me seems a little too deep. I am going to build an internal type cage that will be about 4-5" tall off the bottom of the pond. In this, there will be a large sized underwater filter(Fluval 3plus) and a 150W heater. I plan on having the water set between 75-80... Am not too sure about the temp though...

As you can see, this is pretty exotic. But this is also my first monitor and I want everything to be pretty perfect/ideal.. I don't like going into things half ass..

There are many ways to possibly keep the water warm, mine is a more exotic option...

I was planning to design a cage and send it to a cage dealer for him to make it. The price? $1000 . I don't even have a job at the moment.

How do you make a large enclosure, as in, how much does it cost? I usually buy my stuff but for once I wanna make something I can be proud of. My mom at the moment seems a bit hysterical when I bring up the idea about setting loose a 7 foot lizard in the house lol. Probably a large enclousure is the best.

Can anyone give me a good website or in personal experiences about designing and making the enclosure. Costs?

Any help will be very useful. They grow fast so I minus well start now. With my "building skills" it will probably take me two years or so......blah!

I don't believe there are many websites out there that provide cage building tools...

The easiest way to go about it is to set your mind on what size cage you would like....

Then, get some graph paper, a ruler, lots of pencils and erasers, and compass sometimes helps...

Draw out your first rough draft of all sides.. One side per page of graph paper.

I went through 87 pages of graph paper before I was settled on my design. Things were constantly changing.. Do I want a glass front? Do I want the cage to open from the front with doors, open vertically from the front, or do I want the top to raise up?

I can't give you a price on how much building the cage is going to cost because I haven't gotten as far to purchase all the materials... This is where my father comes in.. Him and his Home Depot contractor card....

But anyway... The largest non-special order plywood is 4x8, they range from $15-$45 depending on thickness and quality. You will need 2x4's, these act as braces and supports. I require about 150 feet of 2x4's....

Then you have to decide on how you will be doing your heating.. The easiest way is with clamp lamps, but if you want a secure way, hardwire the lights. Then you have to decide on front, do you want a viewing window in front? If yes, will it be plexi-glass or glass? Is the top going to open or is the side going to open? Will the cage be on casters or sit directly onto the ground? What are you going to waterproof the inside of the cage with? What decorations will you use? How will you supply freshwater everyday? What will your substrate be? Dirt, Mulch, etc? Where do you plan on putting the cage? How will you fill and clean the cage?

Those are just some of the questions I had to ask myself... Some were easy to handle, others had to be worked out. The best way to start is to start drawing out your sketches of the cage... They will change everyday, or at least they did for me... Also, you want to build the cage as big as economically feasible.. The reason for this is because it will cost more in the long run if you're constantly having to upgrade the size... Make it full size to start, save money in the end(if that's possible)...

It took me nearly 3 weeks to plan out my cage.. I figure it will take me and my father at least 1-2 days to complete the cage, half a day to hardwire the lighting/heating, a quarter day to get the pond, substrate, and pond setup. Then another 2-3 days to get the temperatures worked out right.

Good luck with your decision! Building your own cage is a challenge, but worth it in the end. I've never built a cage, but have built acrylic fish tanks. They are like comparing apples to oranges, but once you do it, you can take pride in your creation and you'll want to do it more!

Thanks for the great advice. Good thing I'm a visual person. I have no problem drawing it out, only building would I have major problem. I don't want to mess up and restart again, I don't got the time nor money if I should fail and failing would be a horrible position to be in such a desperate time. Not because failing is bad, its because I don't got the resource to retry.

My plan is to sketch out my plans like you have said and then go to East Bay Vivarium near my place and look and ask them more about it. I've seen a very awesome cage they have but the cost of buying one like that from them in quite unimaginable. A guy with no job trying to spend $1300. I can't even tell my parents how much i bought it, they'd go bonkers. I'd just say I bought it like $200 (I doubt their not that dumb). Any other advice would be very appreciated, thanks for all the help.

at least on the part of the cage. I commend you for that but take a second and think of the complexities you are creating and possibly the headaches for yourself.

A "pond" indoors is very difficult to keep clean as monitors usually like to crap in them. No amount of filtration will cleanse the water to the degree it should be cleaned.

My advice would be to start with a reasonably simple cage & setup. Get your temps right, get the animal acclimated and used to being worked with to what ever degree you want.

As far as "house training" or "house breaking" goes I will leave that to you. I have not seen it done and don't see it as being a reasonable goal.

I am not trying to discourage you in any way but I have kept salvators for a few years now and found that with the exception of wanting to house train & house break them I had the same goals as you. I even spent quite a lot of money building a cage that is very nice, but too heavy, and only mediocre for monitor usage.

Best wishes, let me know if you need any help.

Gene

I hope your prepared for an animal that can rip a screen out of its frame as an adult. The cage you will need for it when its an adult will be big, very big. After all they can reach 65-75 lbs (thats normal weight). Ive found it best to continually switch from smaller to larger cages throughout their growth to make raising them easier, depends on size and age a tiny monitor can disappear in a very big cage quickly.
They cannot be trained like a dog. They do not do anything to make you happy because they are not pack animal puppies. Your monitor needs to learn to trust you and he might decide to be friendly or he may never change, their personalities are all different. Lots of patience and careful contact to show trust.

i've built a couple cages for various lizards, and for something as large as a water, my advice would be to just dedicate a small room to it. i mean a cage large enough will be the size of a small room anyway, even if you use the 'least amount of room' formula, which is a rectangle with one side twice the length of the lizard, the other once the length. that comes out to a BARE MINIMUM of 14' by 7'. personally i would give it more room than that... so it would be easier to just give it a room.
living with your parents? don't have a spare bedroom? if you have a garage, then you could simply block off a section of it with a few pieces of 8x4 particle board (cheaper than plywood, not as strong though - needs to be painted to prevent rot). don't have a garage either? ok then you can donate a closet, temporarily. i've used the closet cage setup on a couple of my niles, when they were too small to free roam. however a water will definitly outgrow anything but the largest closet. dunno how fast waters grow, but it should hold you over till you come across some money and a more permanent solution.

hope this helps.

Do both of you live at home? does that mean your young? Are you prepared to house this lizard for the next twenty years? Are you going to move out soon? go to school? get a job? girlfriends? travel? you know, all the normal things young people should do.

You may intertain the ideal of buying a large SUV or a horse trailer to haul around your pet lizard as you do all those things. How about did u prepare to dispose of the huge amounts of crap you will be handling? When they crap in the water, it sure does make an awful smell. With that in mind, maybe plan on a house for yourself. You could do that the same way you planned the cage. Did you consider that the cage must fit thru a doorway?? Large cage, little doorways, always a fun problem to solve.

Did u fellas take a class in mechanical drawing? actually you don't need that, what you really needed is a class in problem solving and thinking ahead. So you would have chosen a smaller monitor.

Actually, once your monitor gets over four feet, you will wish for it to stop growing. Because the reality of a large monitor is not as nice as the thought of a large monitor. They are actually a pain in the half a$$. Please think about this, thats all its for. F

Sometimes I think you should have to prove age (21 at least), income and a steady work history to be able to buy any monitor with a potential adult size over 4'.

Billy

>>Do both of you live at home? does that mean your young? Are you prepared to house this lizard for the next twenty years? Are you going to move out soon? go to school? get a job? girlfriends? travel? you know, all the normal things young people should do.
>>
>> You may intertain the ideal of buying a large SUV or a horse trailer to haul around your pet lizard as you do all those things. How about did u prepare to dispose of the huge amounts of crap you will be handling? When they crap in the water, it sure does make an awful smell. With that in mind, maybe plan on a house for yourself. You could do that the same way you planned the cage. Did you consider that the cage must fit thru a doorway?? Large cage, little doorways, always a fun problem to solve.
>>
>> Did u fellas take a class in mechanical drawing? actually you don't need that, what you really needed is a class in problem solving and thinking ahead. So you would have chosen a smaller monitor.
>>
>> Actually, once your monitor gets over four feet, you will wish for it to stop growing. Because the reality of a large monitor is not as nice as the thought of a large monitor. They are actually a pain in the half a$$. Please think about this, thats all its for. F

I live at home... I'm 21... I have had Chinchillas since I was young and currently have a pair of females that is 14 years old. Age is nothing but a number. Won't be moving out for at least 3 years. I currently go to school, I am a History and Computer Information Systems double major.. Have a job at a pet store.. Girlfriend disagrees with my choice, she does not like anything that eats other animals. I go away 2 times a year, no problem taking care of the monitor while away since there is always someone home, either brother or father. I know all the normal things I should be doing, and I have been doing them... I didn't take getting the Blackthroat lightly.

I have an SUV so that isn't a problem.. I also have a large dog crate(for 2 St. Bernards) for transportation to and from places.

Tell me about it... I have NEVER seen the BT I will be getting go anywhere else but in the water. Thankfully I catch it soon after and it doesn't get all nice and ripe. That's part of the reasoning for throwing a small filter into the pond because if she happens to go at lets say 3am and I'm sleeping, I don't want the water to be all stagnant for 4 hours before I get up to start the daily cleaning.

As it is right now with the Chinchillas, none of the cages can fit through a door. All must be taken apart. Thankfully with the way the basement is set up, it will not be hard to move to and fro, and when I finally do get out of the house(As soon as I finish my graduate schooling), I do plan on building an entirely new cage and scrapping the old one.

With my CIS degree, you were forced to take CAD, and CAD Advanced. As a tagalong with this, you could take basic structural engineering at a local community college at half cost. I am currently taking this class and will finish in December.. But since I need to complete the cage sooner, my father is helping. I drew out the basics of the cage, put it to the computer, and printed it out in CAD.. He made some chages, such as bracing the floor of the cage, securing the glass in the cage, and proper light installation. If it was just me with no help, I might not choose to get a large monitor. I would probably have stuck with Bearded Dragons. Thankfully, I have a father who can give valid input and help me out.

I understand that Frank... I really disliked my brother's 5 foot green iguana.. For some reason, I have gotten drawn to the monitor at my job. Especially after hearing how some customers would keep her. I understand what your post was trying to say Frank, I know that getting into a large monitor is a journey on itself, but it's something that I have thought out and something I think I can succeed at.

Are you planning on keeping a black throat down in the same basement as a bunch of chinchillas? You do realize of course that as soon as the monitor senses their presence, like , on the way down the basement stairs, he will be planning ways to eat them at any given chance. Monitors are amazingly tricky, adept and persistent when it comes to catching tasties. Those 13 yr old 'chillas might seem like a finely aged wine to a monitor! Just a thought./

Guy

The Chinchillas aren't anywhere near the basement...

I'm not that stupid... Chinchillas require cool temps so they are kept away from the basement which is usually about 65-75, and only slightly humid.

The BT will never even get near the Chinchilla cages, the room they are in will always have the door shut, also primarily due to the fact that they need a dehumidifier on 24/7, and an A/C running further into fall and earlier into Spring than normally you'd want...

Cool, just checking, glad to heat it!

Guy

My mother didn't care about me getting the monitor ASLONG as her as she said "precious furballs" were not harmed...

And people don't think I've planned out getting this monitor very hard when infact I've been busting my balls to get this right.

I have been keeping and breeding many many species of monitors for many years, with the hope of one day getting it right. How do you beginers plan on getting it right? The first time???? Boy did i miss that boat.

The difference between the planning of a beginer and the planning of an experienced person is, knowing what to plan. As a beginer, you are not taking into consideration whats important. But then, thats the nature of life. F

Well, as a beginner I would like to know what I am missing and where I am going wrong?

I do understand that this will be a "learning as you go" process. I would just like to know what you think I should be doing that I'm not doing...

myself, I think you are making it way too complicated. It (an enclosure) is just a box, concentrate on things that will make it last, and make it easier to change things that may not work. Things I have personally done, that I won't do again.... (fixed lighting positions, unflexible wiring (routed in the walls) to permanent fixtures, fixed ventilation, not enough depth for substrate, not enough depth for distance between door/window and substrate, not good enough sealing, doors that are too small to work in the enclosure, doors that are so big the monitor can run out right past you, etc.) I am sure there are many more I can't even think of right now. What you want is a good solid, water resistant box with a deep pan/bottom for lots of dirt, and a well thought out door. That is it, what is in the box is what matters.

And about that.....

The pond is something you want, not necessarily what your monitor will want. Besides I don't think it is possible (within reason) to do without changing the entire water out on a daily basis. Here is a thought, if you filled your bathtub up, cr@pped in it, what sort of filtration would make you feel comfortable drinking that water. Pretty gross huh?

On the enclosure (outside) I would concentrate on the following
Build it to last
Ventilation that can be controlled
Holds lots of substrate
Escape proof (often forgotten)
Accessibility to the inside (also often forgotten)
Flexibility

On the inside...
Lots of dirt
Temp Gradient
Water for drinking
Hides

What dirt, what temp gradient, what and how for hides are some things you need to think about.

Good Luck,

--Robert

The pond idea was a little eccentric, but I'm kinda thinking what would be best. I know this BT loves to soak and crap in the water so I wanted to get the largest feasible water container since she will not always be 2'6"... But cleaning it will be difficult... Since I do have water spigots right in the area, I was thinking I could use my Python cleaning system(fish tank cleaner/filler)...

What would you suggest using? 1/2" plywood or 3/4" plywood?

Also, is it better to have the substrate sloped? So that one side is lets say 3' high and the low side is about 6" deep?

What do you mean by controllable venting? Do you mean by vents that can be easily closed in lets say the winter, etc?

Depending on size, I would use either 3/4" plywood (for smaller) or frame it with 2x4's and use OSB (much cheaper). Anything I put the time into, would get FRP on the inside to protect the wood.

Sloping substrate, yes you can do that, but they will rearrange it.

What you will find eventually is the cage/box itself is more important to you and how you can do things, what is inside is more important to the monitor and how it can do things. While what we need and do is important, the monitor should be the most important. I wouldn't make too many hard decisions on the inside, other than deep substrate and a temp gradient (around 75 - 135F hot spot).

Good Luck,

--Robert

I have used them to clean a monitor pond. (yes that's right. I built an indoor pond for my salvator) I used the python to drain & refill it and it sucked. Literally.

It is great as an aquarium tool, in fact there are none better in my oppinion but it was horrible for monitor & pond usage.

Long story short I scrapped the pond idea. But I will tell you the lengths I went through before hand if you wish. The python can not handle large pieces of feces. It clogs the tubes and the part that the water comes out of after the venturi valve.

You have to scrub / disinfect the pond then rinse and refill. I spent hours doing that and all for a 60 gallon pond. It really sucked.

If I were to do it again I would put a drain into the pond sort of like a bathtub drain so I could open it and hose it out then close it and refill.

If you want to do the pond thing I wish you luck but for me it was not practical. Let me know if you want to bounce some ideas off me. I'll be happy to talk it through with you.

Gene

Where did you come up with "pain in the half a$$" That is so perfect! But I do see that some things never change, like spelling and tact. Oh well, bummer, drag! It never fails to raise a smile watching these grand, yet nearly completely un-thought-through plans, schemes and designs bunted like a sleeping cow. All hail the supreme buntmaster!!! I hope all is well with you.

Guy

Things are fine here. How about you? when are you getting your half a$$ butt over here. I did a "guy" the other day and have a monster bruise on me bum.

I really would like to spell better. But, I have no need to become more tactful, all that does is prolong the inevitable insults. As I rarely say what they want me to say. Besides, my poor tact gives them a direction to vent, without such, their heads would explode. hahahahahahahaha. Your Friend Frank

I really suck at spelling also Frank.

Until they put a spell check on forums I just copy & paste my post to a new email (or write it there) on outlook and spell check it. If it comes up with too many corrections I copy the corrected version and paste it back over my post on the forum.

A little trouble some but I make the effort when I can.

If I could only find a way to circumvent monitor issues like that but then where would the fun be?

Gene

The way I see it, you'll show tact on the forum about the same time I cut my hair to please the pope. I've been way way way too busy to go father than Glendale (CA) this last month or two. But once I get my truck out of impound I should have some time to swing out to the ol' ranch, check the lacies, pilbaras, and do some cajun. I have been having cravings for carne seca at La Indita on fourth. Do you have any female ackies around? My female expired a while back.

Guy

Hello, I sent you an email but incase you don't get it could you email me. Alan Stevens
snakecorner@yahoo.com

Where did you come up with "pain in the half a$$" That is so perfect! But I do see that some things never change, like spelling and tact. Oh well, bummer, drag! It never fails to raise a smile watching these grand, yet nearly completely un-thought-through plans, schemes and designs bunted like a sleeping cow. All hail the supreme buntmaster!!! I hope all is well with you.

Guy

I thought there was only like 4 threads connected to this post, wasn't paying attention. Half my mind is on the music I turn on when I get on the computer.

Frank:
Just wondering where you come up with the idea that I'm a newb at monitors. I'm only a newb when it comes to large monitors, I've kept V.s. Storri , V.a.acanthurus, V.t.timorensis , niles and V.doreanus. The only newb thing is that fact that I haven't really raised one to be house trained nor the fact that I've gone into the field of really large monitor I'm a newb. When you talk about someone, make sure you get all the facts right. Just because I asked some questions that I'm suddenly a beginner? If that is so I guess everyone here is one. Nothing wrong with a beginner, everyone have to start somewhere.

Other than that, I don't give a crap. I'm going to go eat dinner. A lot of dogs require much more than a 4' monitor. Lets all wait till we're 21 to have dogs alright? Yawn.

Oh yeah, yes I do know nile monitor are a large species, but they both escaped lol. So I never got to get them big....don't ask how, it sounds a bit pathetic.

I do not know you, or the other fellas envolved in this thread. What I do know is, if you ask newbie questions, then your a newbie(here) for all practical purposes. It really does not matter what species you had, that again is meaningless for all practical purposes. What is meaningful is the experiences and events that occured when you had these animals. You could keep one for thirty years, but if it didn't do anything, then its the same as having it for two days. Do you understand that?

Everybody here does not want to sound naive or stupid, so they all "act" like they know something. But the fact remains, they are here asking why their, so and so, is dying and such(again only an example) Or how and what to build. They ask about the cage for an adult. The truth is, less then 2% of all the waters here in captivity will become adult. Your first concern should be, how to allow this baby to become adult. I know it sounds very simple and it is. Experience predicts that in order to succeed, take one simple step at a time. inexperience allows you to shotgun all over heck without direction. Hence I think you may be a newbie. Again, please this is not to offend.

One of the traits you see here is, people tend to say, i want it ideal the first time or perfect, or the best. They infer that because they feel they are smart. The truth is, if they were smart, they would already know that perfect or ideal, are results, not cages or temps or setups. Perfect or ideal results is something obtained by working the tools you have to allow the charges to perform.

Consider this, when building a cage, you take maintence into play. Things like changing the water or cleaning. Or access to lites, etc. Is that true? Did you ever consider that the cage and your husbandry are maintence for the monitor. The monitor is the key, not the cage. F

What kind of newbie questions are you talking about, you mean the part about house training monitors? Is that really a newbie question or is that just a question. I mean, tell me, what makes you believe such a question comes from a beginner. 98% of the water monitors dying is a false fact that is why i'm saying you should get your facts straight before you type it up. How can someone have monitors for 30 years have the same experience as a person with them for two days. If you have them you must take care of them. Even if you are only watching and letting them die you would still know more than that. No one here is stupid or naive. A stupid person is a person that won't learn and won't ask questions. At least they are trying to improve themselves. Just because they ask something doesn't mean they are just dumb. They probably already know the answer but want to confirm it with the other people to compare and contrast.

As in your remark about me asking questions from all directions, the only question I really want to know is 1/ How to house train a monitor and 2/ Building a cage. Yes I am newb in that but I'm not a beginner. I was only concentrating on the first before the second subject was brought up. Just because your smart doesn't mean you can't ask questions. As the real smart people say "With each knowledge I gain, The Less I seem to know." Figure what that means. See I'm a really nice guy only problem is I hate when people imply to who I am with no proof whatsoever and just so because they're "bored". I hate being told wrong by people that don't even know my name. I have no problem with you other than that comment. Lets end this, its wasting my time. You've gone a bit too broad for my "inferior" brain to comtemplate.

Your ego is getting in the way.

There is nothing wrong with being inexperienced. It does not reflect on your character, or intelligence level. Yet you somehow are whining about being insulted here. If you could get past your own pride, you'd see no insult was given.

It is extremely easy to have monitors for 20 years, and still have learned nothing. If the monitor never does any behaviors natural to IT, the keeper is the one who has never advanced beyond keeping it alive. Just keeping them alive does not mean you are experienced with monitors. Do you think they just eat and crap? Walk around a backyard once in a while?
I do think they do more than that. Perhaps when you let go of your attitude (I'm not a newbie, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, whaaaaa), you will consider what people are trying to help you see.
D.

My point was saying how it is impossible to have monitors for 30 years be the same as having a monitor for 2 days. The only person that seems to be whinning is you. I'm trying to help people get their facts straight before they say something, you're now included in the know it all wanna be list. I don't feel that much insulted specially when its someone I don't even know, but all do we should at least give credit to people's achieves. You're one of those guys that just come on the board, don't know sh*t and just pick sides and try to be "tight" about it. Well guess what, first you aren't "cool" second, you made little sense as to what the argument was really about, and third you should keep your fingers tied up if you don't know what you're talking about. Get a life! I'm going to school now, my classes are starting, zzzz.

Secondly she knows volumes more than you.

She and others were trying to help in more than just this post. You are spouting knowledge from out of date texts and leading people even more ignorant than yourself down bad paths. A lot has changed since those books were written. Most of the people have done more with monitors than those books could ever describe.

No one is picking sides or trying to be "tight". My advice, though not asked for, would be to listen to some of these people. They have been there & done this before.

I took the screen name originally, because I don't want to be typecast as a female. I'm just a person, that's what I like about the computer, appearances don't play any part, nor does age or gender. Most would dismiss me based on me being little, shy, and a girl, I'm guessing.

On the forum, we are our thoughts, words, and results. Isn't that why people don't show their faces with their lizards? I always thought that was kinda odd...
Thanks for the kind words.
And yes, I like 'Goon'. And 'D' is my middle initial.
D.

I don't want my monitor that close to my nose...

Sorry Goon,

Most of us know you are a girl. I personally think it is great that this in not an entirely male hobby. I would never dismiss you for any reason. You have proven your place here, not that there was ever a need.

I do show pics with me in them. I don't personally care for my photo but I put my ugly mug there anyway. I really don't care what others think. And yes it is odd. I like to know what people look like so that when I meet them at shows I know who I am looking for.

Really I had little point in my post other than I am sick of people coming here, disputing proven methods, and leading others down the wrong path. All the while bashing those who do try to help.

See ya later

See! It's my face.

Now I am embarrased

Thanks!!

You're too kind.

"I like to know what people look like so that when I meet them at shows I know who I am looking for."

That is easy, I am the one with the bleeding arms. hahahahaha

Almost all of my pics, are taken by me, which makes it very hard to get in a mugshot. Besides no one can ever say I am a narcissist, I am just one of those shy, quiet types....

--Robert

Bleeding arms?

That's why I got those big blue gloves. I am not worried about teeth. The gloves would offer little protection now as large and Yoshi & others are. It is just so my scars don't get scars.

I have to bribe my wife to take the pics that I am in. Other wise I take most of my pics

Later,

There is no point or arguement, there is only you playing around, wait a second, I need to take a dump. ZZZZZZZZ F

Just build a big nile cage. You should also know by now that monitors are individuals and to stick to one taming technique is a mistake.
Good Luck

Who are you talking to? If you're talking to me that wouldn't have made any sense. I'm going to go watch Smallville again, brb.