Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I got a book on Corn and rat snakes and it said to not mix species. Would it be alright to breed a Leucistic Texas Rat to a Black rat snake from the Ohio Vally?
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3.2 Normal ball-Alex,Jake,Montey,Siv,Nanna
1.2 Green Anoles-Herman,Penelope,Fresca
1.0 Red-tail Boa-Bulwai
1.0 Flat tailed house gecko
0.1 Burmese-Chelse

finding people interested in taking the offspring. They'll be hets that look like texas/black crosses. I'm not sure there is much demand.

If you don't mind accumulating offspring it won't be so bad. Honestly, excess mouths to feed and cages to clean can become a burden.

Regards
John

Agreed. Black x Texas offspring are worthless. As it is, normal black rats & normal Texas rats are both pretty cheap- I see both as low as $5 each from at least one person every year.

Intergrades are pretty much worthless. I know as a black rat keeper, I wouldn't touch a Texas x black intergrade. Hell, I even have one adult male albino "black rat" who I suspect of being an intergrade- he isn't bred because of this. It put me three years behind on breeding projects, but I don't like intergrades, and most people I know who like black rats won't go near mixes. I'd much rather see what can be done with pure black rats and pure Texas rats, as would most enthusiasts I know! I see intergrades sold occasionally, but I also see them given away.

If you want to breed, I'd recommend finding another leucistic Texas, or at least some type of Texas rat. Even if you only have normals het. for morphs (leucistic x albino would make normals het. leuc and albino), they're worth more than intergrades.

Just the opinion of a locality enthusiast here, though!
-Ronnie Nocera

..Check out the natural intergrades. They aren't all that interesting, really.

Matthew

As the others have said, no one would want those offspring. I don't think there's much demand for het for lucy Texas Rats either. I'd go get another leucistic Texas rat and/or morph of black rat to breed.

Tim

Central Ohio Black Rat I found a couple of years ago (photographed and not collected):

Third Eye

I was just wondering. I found a black rat nest and thought maybe I could get some white snakes. I've never had my own clutch of snakes but I guess theirs a difference between hybrids and intergrades. Thanks for the warning.
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3.2 Normal ball-Alex,Jake,Montey,Siv,Nanna
1.2 Green Anoles-Herman,Penelope,Fresca
1.0 Red-tail Boa-Bulwai
1.0 Flat tailed house gecko
0.1 Burmese-Chelse

You there are leucistic black rats also. There might not be any available right now, but check the clssifieds or wait until the 2009 season gets going and watch the classifieds.
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The Voices have won!

jeff pfeifer

First, lets start with what you would get from such a cross. All the pups would look like a cross between a normal Texas Rat and a normal central Black Rat, only they would all be het for the leucistic trait. I don't think there is much of a demand for such animals. You might even have a problem with giving them away except as fishing bait and King Snake food. I could be all wrong about the demand for such animals, but I don't think I am.

The second thing that you might be asking about is will the pups have any genetic problems because of such a cross. The answer to that question is no. You should get nothing but strong healthy pups from such a cross.

If you want to breed snakes, get a match for one species or the other. You are on the right track by investing in a good book before you start.

Best of luck to you.

Rick

Evidence seems to suggest that the lucy black rats are crosses anyway so no harm is done but people tend to want more not less pure animals. From a marketing perspective, if you wanted to create hets you'd be better off going with a wc TX rat instead. That said I've been following the lucy market for some time and the black rats, though widely regarded as likely crosses, seem to be more popular as they have a more desirable body shape and disposition.
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Darwin Rocks!

Thanks for posting. I did not know that about the leucy black rats. That's the only problem I have with intergrades and hybrids. People don't always label them as such. Even creamsicle corns, which most people know are mixed with emorys, are no longer labeled as such by alot of people. Some newbies might not know about them and some may care not to have intergrades.
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The Voices have won!

jeff pfeifer

Not all leucy black rats come from the Texas rat lines. Some most definitely do, because there are unscrupulous people out there who jumped on the opportunity to sell leucy animals as black rats when black rats became more popular, because they were worth more than Texas rats. And there are people who don't care about them being intergrades, who breed them anyway, or buy intergrades anyway. There are people on this board who don't buy into the whole subspecies thing at all, and don't care about breeding any of the obsoleta subspecies to each other.

Heck, yesterday at a show I had someone trying to convince me that their whitesided black rat and their ghost glades are the same thing, and since I'm looking for a female whitesided black rat, I should just get the female whitesided 'glades instead. Both of theirs were simply labeled "whitesided rat."

But there are most definitely pure leucistic black rats out there. I have one myself. Floyd Presley started his line with F1 captive bred leucistics out of a WC leucistic & rusty pairing. The WC animals that were the parents of his snakes came from Maryland and Ohio, so while I guess it's possible, I doubt that they're Texas rat intergrades.

-Ronnie Nocera

Hey Ronnie
Was Floyd and /or George at the show ?

Thanks
Andre'

I didn't make it to the MARS show. Floyd usually goes to the Pittsburgh show, but he missed this month. I heard from another vendor he hurt his back, and wasn't up to dragging around a freezer.

-Ronnie

>>Hey Ronnie
>>Was Floyd and /or George at the show ?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Andre'

I know what you mean. I peronally don't care if an animal is an intergrade. I just like to be up front about it. My favorite corn is my creamsicle. She has the best personality and is my best feeder. I, also, bred my Guyana red-tail boa to my albino Colombian this year too. There has been debate for years with boas too as to whether there are subspecies or just locality differences. Thanks for your post, good information.
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The Voices have won!

jeff pfeifer

"Floyd Presley started his line with F1 captive bred leucistics out of a WC leucistic & rusty pairing. The WC animals that were the parents of his snakes came from Maryland and Ohio, so while I guess it's possible, I doubt that they're Texas rat intergrades."

I'm missing something here: The wild caught parents were from Ohio and Maryland. One was leucistic and the other rusty. Who caught the leusistic and from what state?

I have heard of a mid-west leusistic being captured before but no name ever surfaces. Any info would be appriciated. Thaks in advance.
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That is a a completely narcistocanibolizistic thing to say!