Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Please dont flame me guys...I feel bad enough as it is. On friday I went out to bring my baby sulcata in from outside... I live in a very urban area and didnt think twice about animals prowling. Anway something grabbed it and I found the half eaten shell picked clean in the middle of the yard the next day.

Chalk this up to another "I told you so.." experience. Even if you dont think you have animals around your house, take it from me... you probably do and just dont know it. Please everyone securely cover your torts!

Adam

So sorry about your tort. My sister lives in Southern California in a large housing tract adjacent to open hills. There are hundreds (at least) of houses around hers. She has had coyotes and bobcats going through her backyard, and probably other predators as well. You just never know, I guess.

Thanks for the warning.
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Jeannie

0.0.1 California King Snake (Rex)
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa (Lucas)
0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa (Bella)
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake (Bess)
1.1 Rubber Boas (Isaiah & Esther)
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise (Moxie)
2.0 DSH Cats (Amos & Silas)
1.0 English Springer Spaniel (Jimmy)
and...
2.0 Kids
1.0 Husband

I have seen coyotes, racoons, possums, hawkes and owls prowling the middle of urban Los Angeles. Not to mention Feral dogs, cats, and rats (who love baby torts).
About 3 years ago, The old lady next door to me found a Jack russell terrier scratching at her front door. She decided to take care of it while she looked for the owner, a nice thing to do. I was at school at the time. The dog dug under the fence and got into my yard. He went in my doggydoor ( at the time I had no dogs) jumped on the couch, got up on a kitchen counter, and jumped into a huge tub containing a 2 year old baby Galapagos tort that I had payed $1600.00 for a year earlier.
When I walked in my house that afternoon, there was that adorable little dog standing on my couch in the middle of a sea of little black shell fragments and other litlle tortoise bits.
That tortoise would be worth probably 6 0r 7 thousand dollars by todays market and I would pay a hell of alot more than that rite now to have avoided that happening.
Moral of the story? Always expect the unexpected and plan for it.

The Massachusetts Division of Fish & Wildlife has produce leaflets about cats. Many people let their pet cats outside and they wreak havoc on native birds, small mammals and reptiles. Why not pet torts too?

When food is scarce native preditors die off reducing populations. This give prey species a break and time to recover. Cats just go home to a bowl of Tender Vitals. Their populations stay high and dessimate prey species. Cats would be a problem in an urban area.

Not meant to insult. I figured many people may not think of it.

Tell cat owners to keep them in their houses! CATS ARE EVIL!!!

Brian

I agree that cats are a problem in many areas, especially to birds, reptiles, and small mammals. However, cats are not evil, they are merely obeying their own predatory instincts. The issue is with cat owners, and those people who dump their unwanted cats to fend for themselves. I have 2 cats who are indoors because I enjoy having birds in my yard. It's my responsibility to make sure the cats can't hunt the birds, so they stay indoors (which, BTW, is a lot healthier and safer for the cat anyway). They are separated from my herp room, and they have each other for company, so they're perfectly happy.

Your basic premise is sound, but it's unfair to blame them when it's people who should be responsible for their pets. Many, many cats are injured or die every year by people who abuse, neglect, or abandon them, just as is the case with many reptiles. It's important that we seek humane treatment for all animals, and put the blame where it rightfully belongs: with people.
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Jeannie

0.0.1 California King Snake (Rex)
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa (Lucas)
0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa (Bella)
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake (Bess)
1.1 Rubber Boas (Isaiah & Esther)
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise (Moxie)
2.0 DSH Cats (Amos & Silas)
1.0 English Springer Spaniel (Jimmy)
and...
2.0 Kids
1.0 Husband

cats have just as much right to be outside as your pet tortioses and other repltiles/mammels. mine kills giant humming bird moths, wich i think is sad

The difference is that tortoises really need to be outside for their physical health--they need the UVB, and they need the exercise. Cats don't need to be outside for either their physical or mental health--they can get plenty of stimulation with toys, or playing with each other. In any case, mine are afraid of loud noises and don't enjoy being outside, anyway.
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Jeannie

0.0.1 California King Snake (Rex)
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa (Lucas)
0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa (Bella)
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake (Bess)
1.1 Rubber Boas (Isaiah & Esther)
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise (Moxie)
2.0 DSH Cats (Amos & Silas)
1.0 English Springer Spaniel (Jimmy)
and...
2.0 Kids
1.0 Husband

You are correct. Cats are not really evil. An animal can not be good or evil. Cats can only be cats. Peopel who let their cats outdoors are evil.

Sorry for the mistake,

Brian

Actually cats as all living animals need direct sunlight just like reptiles. People, reptiles or any animal uses the UV in sunlight to make D3 and keep them healthy. While it may not mainfest it self as often in cats, dogs or people as it does in reptiles, they can also suffer from the same problems, due to the lack of sunlight exposure.
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There is nothing to live for, unless there is something more important to die for.

Indoor cats alway lie near the windows to take in sunlight. If living in door is not good for them then why do indoor cats live so many years longer than cats that go outdoors? Apparently not having that outside sunshine doesn't hurt them that much.

Nocturnal species need sunlight? OK

It would seem to me that unless your one of the few animals that live in a cave or spend the entire day under ground. You'll still get some amount of UV light.
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There is nothing to live for, unless there is something more important to die for.

What you are saying would be justified if:

Cat owners (and I happen to be on ethat has two very healthy happy INDOOR cats 16 and 17 years old with no major health problems who still run and play like kittens) Were able to keep their cats confined to their own property and not running around so that those who do like to kill would not hurt other people's animals.

If cats where a naturally occurring predator here .... they are not. So they do not have the right to hunt and kill native species OR trespass on people's property pissing and crapping in their flower bed and killing their pets.

Here's something to think about; If your cat happened to be a killer and went on to your neighbors property and killed a $1,600 tortoise -- would you feel that YOU were responsible to for reimbursing your neighbor for that killed animal?

I respect your feeling that your cat has the right to be outside but unless you can 100% guarantee that it will stay on your property and not cause damages to other people's property or animals you cannot really make such a statement. I know many people who have cats with enclosed outdoor runs and lead trained cats. This is the only RESPONSIBLE way to let your cat outside.

Cats are NOT evil. It is the irresponsible people that let them run a muck that are at fault. The cat is just doing what comes naturally. (I am not saying that is okay I am just saying it is not because of being evil).

It is ashame that they are allowed to run around causing all this damage and also suffering from the many things that the outside world hands them -- like people who have no choice but to eliminate them to protect their property and their animals).

I wish people would just be more responsible about this. They are native animals -- non-feral ones are well fed so they do not hunt for survival they hunt out of instinct and for amusement.

I have two cats an neither of them have ever set foot outside. They are 16 and 17 years old healthy and happy and NOT killing innocent creatures.

Callous people piss me off !! Not cats.

To the person who started this thread -- So sorry for your loss.

It stinks!!

N/P

someone stated the obvious! Notice there are no laws against letting cats out to run the neighborhood, but yet if you take your dog out without a leash, you can be in big trouble. Notice people don't want reptiles next door, but yet these same people let their cats free to roam wherever they want. Ask the high and mighty humane society and peta freaks about that one. Don't get me wrong, I have a cat, but she lives in the house and does not go outside except on our balcony. I don't let her run wild and don't feel that I have the right to. If there was laws to keep them controlled, we wouldn't have the overpopulation that we do, since we aren't going to let strange cats into our houses(well,at least people with brains).
My 2cents
Kevin

No matter where you live, this can happen. Even in the country, you have to watch out for birds! From crows to hawks. A friend told of seeing a VULTURE (and you thought they only ate carrion) carry off one of her baby leopard tortoisesm and it was not that small! So they should probably all be covered and/or protected some way from unknown predators.

Although as noted in a previous post, even urban Los Angeles has its share of predators. I live in Sonoma County, CA (wine country), in a city of 150,000, and we have possums, raccoons, skunks, weasels, otters, rats, hawks, snakes, crows, feral cats, herons, egrets...you name it. I've even seen a bald eagle not 5 miles from my house. I believe that crows are probably the single greatest threat around here, though, simply because there are so many of them and they aren't afraid of people.
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Jeannie

0.0.1 California King Snake (Rex)
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa (Lucas)
0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa (Bella)
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake (Bess)
1.1 Rubber Boas (Isaiah & Esther)
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise (Moxie)
2.0 DSH Cats (Amos & Silas)
1.0 English Springer Spaniel (Jimmy)
and...
2.0 Kids
1.0 Husband

No flaming nesessary. You probably feed bad enough as it is. I have a sulcata that spends alot of time prowling my yard. My yard is completely surrounded by a 5' fence. I can't imagine how bad I would feel if I came out and found what you described. When I was a child I had a fence lizard that got snagged out of it's cage by our family cat. Ever since then I have been terrified that something would grab one of my herps. A close friend of mine had a ficus tree on his patio that he would put his cameleon on during warm days. One day a crow grabbed it right in front of him and flew off. Sorry to hear about your spur. As far as the Terrier story goes, thanks for the nightmares.
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How to get your wife to like toads; 1.Get a male toad. 2.Get him to hug your wifes wrist (amplexus). 3. Tickle him so he chirps in protest. 4.Say "Awww, he likes you". Note; Make sure he pees first or you may receive bodily harm during this procedure.

Hi,

I don't know how big your sulcatta is, or where you live, but I know around here possums, raccoons, and probably skunks can easily climb a 5' fence. As a matter of fact, our yard is surrounded by a 6' fence and possums use it to travel between our yard and the neighbors. They might not be able to take off with your tort, but they could certainly damage it (although they are primarily noctural). And crows, of course, are a terrible danger.

Just wanted to give you a heads up that no fence is absolutely predator proof.
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Jeannie

0.0.1 California King Snake (Rex)
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa (Lucas)
0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa (Bella)
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake (Bess)
1.1 Rubber Boas (Isaiah & Esther)
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise (Moxie)
2.0 DSH Cats (Amos & Silas)
1.0 English Springer Spaniel (Jimmy)
and...
2.0 Kids
1.0 Husband