Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A have a baby BRB that I purchased in September of this year. Today I noticed something unsettling on his underside though. On three of his ventral scales around in middle section of his body (they are not all together, but spaced apart so they look like random spots), there is an ugly brown stain. The scales where the brown is do not seem healthy.

Is this a type of scale rot? Or is it a stain from his substrate (I use brown coconut fiber and cypress bark)? Fungus from the moss he hides under? I am pretty concerned, as he used to have a beautiful white belly with no mottles.

He spends his days curled up under a particularly large piece of moss I have in his cage. I do water it often (every other day or so) and am wondering if that is WAY too much water for him to handle.

He seems quite healthy otherwise, very active, breathes fine and eats voraciously. And might I note that he is preparing to shed, so if that may have anything to do with this, I'd like to know...

I'm sorry I don't have any pics, my camera is horrible and the most you guys would see a giant blur of my hand and some colors...
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Innocent as a dove you will harm no one, but wise as a serpent no one will harm you. - Haug

Pics would definitely help, if you can get them, post 'em. Also, what kind of cage do you use (if it's a glass tank, what kind of top), how often do you clean it and with what? What's the average humidity and temps in the tank? What do you use to heat it?

And finally, I would suggest a vet visit. Rainbows normally don't get scale rot too easily as I've heard, but it is a fungus (if that is indeed scale rot, as it sounds) and can only be treated by a good reptile or exotics vet, and there's nothing we can post that will help, although we can make suggestions about how to change your husbandry to prevent it in the future. Deck out your phonebook and start calling to see if local clinics treat reptiles if you don't already have a good vet! Good luck locating one, and keep us updated!
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Danne
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1.0 '07 BRB "Monroe"
1.0 '08 BRB 66% het Anery "Ace"
1.0 '08 Pastel BP "Sebastian"
1.1 Leos "Bowser & Peach"
0.2 Dumbo (non-feeder) rats "Josie & Holly"

Email = dshoback@eden.rutgers.edu

Just on the tips of the scales or way up on the body of the scales in question?

There can be minor damage to scale tips that will heal with sheds. While not pretty nothing to be concerned with. BRB's are pretty resistant to scale rot as they are tropical snakes used to moist conditions and all the nasties that breeds. But they are susceptable to scale inflamation and worse from lack of proper cleaning of substrate.

Assuming decent husbandry and the impending shed I'd hold off on a vet visit and see how those scales look after the shed.

Of course all this is total speculation based on my interpretation of your descriptions. Even a crappy pic is better than none at all so please take and post up something.

One other point the jumps out at me...

"He spends his days curled up under a particularly large piece of moss I have in his cage. I do water it often (every other day or so) and am wondering if that is WAY too much water for him to handle."

Watering it every other day or so....

Where is all that water going?

What type of cage?
Screened top aquarium???
If aquarium - top mostly covered/blocked off to keep in humidity?
If aquarium - under moss is that where the heat source is?
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

All right, I know of a great vet nearby my work place that is experienced in snakes, so if this shed doesn't clear the spots up I'm taking him there. These 'stains' he has are not just on the ends of his scales, but take up the majority of each individual ventral scale they occur on. It's very weird, there's only three scales that have the off color, everything else is white.

The water I water the moss with seems to be absorbed by the coconut fiber substrate, as well as the moss itself, keeping everything damp. I'm afraid some of the water has been pooling at the bottom of the tank (which is made of glass) where my BRB burrows down to, so that's why I worry about rot since he would be laying on wetness for a considerable amount of time.

The moss is NOT on the hot side of the cage, but rather near the cooler end. I use both UTH and ceramic bulb to keep the cage warm. The cage itself is a custom-built aquarium, taller than it is long, made up of glass panels and wood trim. The top is just wire mesh, which I cover with a blanket to help keep warmth and humidity in.

I cleaned my entire cage out last night because I was so paranoid, right now there's just a water dish, newspaper for substrate, and a 'shedding hide' with some moss in it. He's hiding in the moss right now.

He should shed sometime after boxing day.
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Innocent as a dove you will harm no one, but wise as a serpent no one will harm you. - Haug

The UTH and ceramic bulb combo is blaring - too much! Given that it's a glass tank the heat will escape quickly, but a ceramic bulb will dry out a cage and possibly overheat it very quickly. It sounds like it might be too hot or dry to me at least, check the temperatures to know for sure (get an indoor/outdoor thermometer from home depot and keep the probe on the floor of the cage at the basking side or use a temp gun if you can). Shouldn't be over 85 degrees F, even that could be a little hot.

When I started on these forums about a year ago with my first BRB some recommended Reflectix insulation (from home depot also, comes in a huge roll for like $20). It keeps in the heat and humidity, I use it over the entire back and sides of my 29g tank and over the screen lid. The humidity and heat are good with the Reflectix and the UTH with my setup, I highly recommend the insulation for glass tanks after having it suggested to me.

And like Dave said, try to get a picture. Even if it's just off of a cell phone we could probably help us tell you if you do or don't need to see a vet.
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Danne
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1.0 '07 BRB "Monroe"
1.0 '08 BRB 66% het Anery "Ace"
1.0 '08 Pastel BP "Sebastian"
1.1 Leos "Bowser & Peach"
0.2 Dumbo (non-feeder) rats "Josie & Holly"

Email = dshoback@eden.rutgers.edu

Reflectix is great stuff for insulation. I kept some of my desert snakes(Trans-pecos rat snakes) at warm temperatures in a house with temps in the 30's to 50's by wraping it arround all four exterior walls of the aquarium and using a heat emitter.

The only time I use a heat emitter along with UTH is if I am placing the emitter above a large container of water. In this case the increased evaporation off the water source seems to counteract the humidity loss. That being said I still would not suggest it. Best is to just get a plastic or wood enclosure with very restricted airflow to hold in humidity. You won't spend that much more then a 60 gallon aquarium setup would be and it is much more approriate and safe.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
0.1 Pacific Gophersnake(unproven Hypo)
1.0 Amel Pacific Gophersnake
0.1 Striped Anery Pacific Gophersnake
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

These snakes more than nearly all others pass lots of liquid urine. With a bark or mulch substrate you are not going to see it and so the cage seems clean but the substrate becomes very acidic from all that urine. The acidic substrate will cause skin problems. I use paper towel substrate with my little BRBs and have to change it a couple times a week because of the urine. I like the look of bark and mulch substrates but do not think they are such a great idea with these snakes for most keepers because they need to be changed so often.

>>All right, I know of a great vet nearby my work place that is experienced in snakes, so if this shed doesn't clear the spots up I'm taking him there. These 'stains' he has are not just on the ends of his scales, but take up the majority of each individual ventral scale they occur on. It's very weird, there's only three scales that have the off color, everything else is white.
>>
>>The water I water the moss with seems to be absorbed by the coconut fiber substrate, as well as the moss itself, keeping everything damp. I'm afraid some of the water has been pooling at the bottom of the tank (which is made of glass) where my BRB burrows down to, so that's why I worry about rot since he would be laying on wetness for a considerable amount of time.
>>
>>The moss is NOT on the hot side of the cage, but rather near the cooler end. I use both UTH and ceramic bulb to keep the cage warm. The cage itself is a custom-built aquarium, taller than it is long, made up of glass panels and wood trim. The top is just wire mesh, which I cover with a blanket to help keep warmth and humidity in.
>>
>>I cleaned my entire cage out last night because I was so paranoid, right now there's just a water dish, newspaper for substrate, and a 'shedding hide' with some moss in it. He's hiding in the moss right now.
>>
>>He should shed sometime after boxing day.
>>-----
>>Innocent as a dove you will harm no one, but wise as a serpent no one will harm you. - Haug

Thanks, Jeff. I had no idea that BRBs 'went' more often than normal snakes. It seems highly likely that he has rot now.

As requested I managed to get some pics of him tonight, so here they are, included:

I have been treating the areas with Neosporin 2x daily just in case it is what I hope it isn't. The areas have not gotten worse since I put him on newspaper.
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Innocent as a dove you will harm no one, but wise as a serpent no one will harm you. - Haug

Looks like the start of scale rot to me too, but it's a minimal case as is to be expected with a BRB so he should heal nicely after treatment. Get him to a vet for medication, I'm not familiar with any diy remedies although I've heard of people trying to treat it themselves.

Other than that, keep him in newspaper or paper towels since the other substrate seems to be the cause. Also depending on how much water is evaporating and how damp the cage is could be the cause of mold which often occurs in BRB cages and could also cause the infection or make it worse. With an annoying substrate to change this could go unnoticed longer, whereas in paper towel or newspaper cages it's easily spotted if it starts and can be removed even if you only have 5 minutes before you have to be somewhere.
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Danne
---------
1.0 '07 BRB "Monroe"
1.0 '08 BRB 66% het Anery "Ace"
1.0 '08 Pastel BP "Sebastian"
1.1 Leos "Bowser & Peach"
0.2 Dumbo (non-feeder) rats "Josie & Holly"

Email = dshoback@eden.rutgers.edu

Thanks for all the info and tips, guys. I'll get him to a vet as soon as I can schedule an appointment
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Innocent as a dove you will harm no one, but wise as a serpent no one will harm you. - Haug

I would not schedule a vet visit. The scales do not look too serious. It could be a bacterial infection or it could be a funfal infection so I would alternate treatment every other day with OTC antibiotic (triple antibiotic or neosporin) and antifungal (Lotrimin or similar) ointments.

>>Thanks, Jeff. I had no idea that BRBs 'went' more often than normal snakes. It seems highly likely that he has rot now.
>>
>>As requested I managed to get some pics of him tonight, so here they are, included:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I have been treating the areas with Neosporin 2x daily just in case it is what I hope it isn't. The areas have not gotten worse since I put him on newspaper.
>>-----
>>Innocent as a dove you will harm no one, but wise as a serpent no one will harm you. - Haug

One of mine had several scales that looked almost like the ones in the pictures. I checked everyhting out in the enclosure and it was clean, so I waited until the next shed and sure enough they cleared up.
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1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Savanna Monitor
0.1 BCC
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 BRB
1.0 Crazy meowing all the time cat rescued from local pet store

Yeah, he JUST shed today and the scales that used to be brown are all white again... I'm not sure if it's because I treated it or not, but boy am I glad to see them look all shiny and new
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Innocent as a dove you will harm no one, but wise as a serpent no one will harm you. - Haug