Reptile & Amphibian Forums

About half my clutch has "collapsed" after about 65 days of incubation at a steady 84 deg. they have been this way for almost 5 days. i candled them and saw some vasculature and an embryo. I read somewhere they may need assistance hatching. at what point do you step in and help out? Or do I just let them do it on thier own and just wait it out?

Have you been keeping the humidity as close to 100% as possible? Are you replacing the water lost from the substrate?

Opening the eggs will not help them if they are not ready. If none have hatched then they are not ready. Helping them would be enlarging the opening after the dragon has cut the shell. I have never had a need to do this but also have seen it in books.

They may be getting ready to hatch. Do not add water! I'd leave them alone and let nature take it's course. Can you post pictures?

The humidity is at 98-100%. The only water that has been added is what i sprayed the paper towels down with that is covering the screen mesh that is the flooring of the incubator.I will just wait and see what happens.Thanks for the advice

The eggs may dimple slightly prior to hatching. Generally one day prior. Collapse, to me means failure of the eggs. The poster stating not to add water to the substrate is incorrect. The eggs absorb water from the substrate and grow larger. Evaporation also happens, this water must be replaced as nature would add water to the substrate by rain.

I am very meticulous and this is what I do. I place the eggs on moist vermiculite after their laid. I then weigh the container with the eggs and mark the weight on the top of each container. Every 2 weeks I reweigh the container and add enough water to return the containers to their original weight. I add it with an eyedropper to the substrate. I do not spray the eggs. You'd be surprised how much water is lost in 2 weeks even with high humidity.

BDlvr,

I totally disagree with you. Adding water this far into the incubation process greatly increases the chance of the eggs dying. You literally drown them. Late in the process it's OK, and arguably preferable, if you don't see much condensation in the incubation enclosure. Early in the process it's OK to add a little water at a time if the eggs are beginning to dent. However, I prefer the paper towel method.

Good eggs can dent well before 1 day before hatching. There is a difference between denting and collapsing. Pictures will help if you have them. BD eggs are very easy to hatch, post pics, and don't panic.

DO NOT ADD WATER at this point!

I never had to add water to incubation containers. I think if you have to, there may be too much air flow, or loss of humidity. My setup was a standup freezer, with only a few holes for very little air movement, then shelving with deli containers with the eggs/vermiculite with only a few holes in those containers. I used a red bulb on a thermostat and always had a bowl of water at the bottom of the freezer to keep the air humid inside the freezer. Typically I would not even open the egg containers until they hatched.

BDlvr,

You may have missed the sentence within the post mentioning that the eggs are on day 65. The typical BD clutch should begin hatching any day. At this point adding water is a potential death sentence.

I disagree! Remoistening the SUBSTRATE has no risk at all. As I stated you don't spray the eggs. In nature if the ground dries out the eggs fail. Conversely, in the incubator if the substrate dries out the eggs fail. Your paper towel method addresses air humidity and I'm sure you have noticed that the paper towels dry out and have to be remoistened. By your line of thinking why not just use dry vermiculite from the beginning?

BDlvr,

Are you new to this? Do some research, adding moisture this late in the incubation cycle can cause the eggs to die. Early on it's OK.

Re-read your post.

Do you really believe that they only options are wet and bone dry? I don't dig up many of my BD clutches and they hatch in the enclosure. They're set up on 18" to 24" inches if substrate. There's a huge variance in moisture levels.

Eggs need to shed moisture late in incubation or they fail. The hatchlings literally drown. Where do you get 100% humidity? That's not neccessary and can cause probelms and lengthen the incubation cycle. This is not an opinion it's fact.

BD eggs are very easy to hatch and thousands of clutches have been hatched successfully. Again, this isn't my opinion, it's been proven time and time again.

If your paper towel or substrate drys so quickly within the short 70 day incubation period of a BD clutch your should try a different incubation container. Wet paper towel does increase humidity, what's your point? That's what it's supposed to do.

I hatched lace monitors last year. They incubated for 270 days which is typical for this species. I added a small amount of moisture three times.

The poster is now 70 days into incubation. They eggs are either bad or about to hatch. Adding water at this time, or messing with them, will do nothing but harm.

JME I am not new to this as you insinuate. Research back posts and check my credentials. I will not argue this. The requester can make their own determination.

You don't need to argue. It's actually fairly common knowledge that you don't add water at 65 days. The eggs are either dead or ready to hatch. Adding water will do nothing but kill them at this point.

Are you aware that in addition to temps moisture has a significant impact on the length of incubation? Too much moisture will increase incubation length as will temps that are on the cool side. One hundred percent humidity throughout the incubation cycle is not a good thing. Humidity should be around 60% - 80% but can go lower. It should never exceed 90% especially towards the end of the incubation period.

I'm not really interested in your credentials. I'm sure that you're a very nice person who takes excellent care of their dragons. I'm also positive that you have very good intentions. It's just that your advice to the original poster is incorrect.

No need to argue, this is a fact and can be researched easily using the internet. Here's a decent article that popped up on Google:

http://www.bio.miami.edu/ktosney/file/eggs.pdf

My opinion is not incorrect as you state. Your article is a question and answer and says nothing like don't add water after 65 days. It actually says that if you add water to wrinkled eggs now you could save the eggs. But either way this is also one person's "opinion". The text certainly does not support not adding water to the substrate as you recommend.

Either way this I'm over this thread. I'm sure you're a nice person too. Just a little misinformed. lol.

This is the first time I am checking back on this thread in a few days. I sprayed the eggs down a few days ago and they have absorbed the moisture and unwrinkled quite a bit. Is this a good thing? I dont know. I probably did just extend the incubation period. I dont think i drowned them because i really didnt spray them much. I guess I just wait and see

I wouldn't recommend spraying the eggs directly. I would just replace water lost from the substrate by moistening the substrate only. They'll hatch when they're ready. Even with identical conditions different clutches from the same female hatch in different amounts of days.

I'm pretty skeptical that the collapsed eggs will hatch at all.

Here's how the Dachiu's keep their eggs and substrate moist.

http://www.dachiu.com/care/incubator.html

Don't spray them and don't add water to the incubation substrate. Put a damp (not wet, wring it out) paper towel over them. Is there condensation in the incubation container? Are they wrinkled or are they dented? There's a big difference. Denting will typically occur on the top of the egg. Wrinkling will occur all around the egg including the bottom.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you're approaching day 70? At 84F, if they're viable, they should hatch any day now. Be patient. I really believe that you're in the home stretch!

BDlvr posted a great link. Here's a qoute from it:

"The eggs are placed in plastic containers with four parts vermiculite to one part water by volume, burried about two thirds of the way in the medium. The Helix is dialed in at 84-86 degrees, with the probe inside of one of the plastic containers placed in the center of the incubator on the highest shelf. The plastic containers have two one eighth holes for ventilation. We cover the holes with pieces of tape for a few days to a week when first placed in the incubator until we see water condensed on the inside of the lid. Then we pull the tape back.

We never actually spray the eggs, but we do mist the inside of the lid if there is no condensation on the lid. Be careful not to have too much condensation on the lid, or water will fall on the eggs. We usually only have to spray the lids once or twice through the whole incubation process."

As you can see they don't add water to the substrate during the entire incubation cycle. Adding water to the actual substrate can add too many variables that are now out of your control. It's really an option of last resort. They also DO NOT recommend condensation on the lid as it will drip on the eggs. At 90% - 100% humidity condensation is a huge problem. Moisture is far more impotant early on in the process. If it's too high towards the end of the process it can have a negative effect.

Misting the lid a few times is a great idea. This gives you better control if they're becoming too dry. It's important that you do not try and correct an issue in one day. They should be brought back over the course of several days in order to avoid over doing it. Too dry is better than too wet as it's reversible. Don't mist the lid until it's soaked, just a very light misting will due.

If possible, post pics before you do anything. BDlvr uses the word 'collapsed' but I'm guessing that your eggs have not collapsed.

Wrinkled eggs if the humidity drops below 40% during the incubation cycle. Not when they're ready to hatch. There's wrinkling due to dry substrate and there is denting before hatching. Two very different events.

That was the first article on Google. You'll find hundreds like it. I've had BD's since the mid 80's. They are very easy to hatch if you leave them alone.

So why did you suddenly decide to post here with such strong opinions? Your help could have been very worthwhile over the years.

I don't visit that often. I'm really not trying to offend you. My apologies if I've done so.

These BDs eggs aren't mine. However, reading through this large thread of comments and advice, I feel a little attachment to them. Can you share a update on the eggs? How much longer do they have to incubate before they hatch? Please let us know when they do. I am very happy that there are people here with a world of knowlege here. I have had my BDs for 2 months and I learn a whole lot on here. It is good to have people with opposing views sometimes.....sort of like a check and balance. Thanks for being here and helping us less experience people. Both of you guys should be feel happy to help this person. (bowing, bowing).

Here is your update-For the life of me I cant get any pics to attach to ths thread. Very frustrating! Its going on day 72. 3 of the 9 eggs ar dented on top for at least 6 days now and the other 6 are round and plump. Temp is still at a steady 84 deg.And i havent added water to the vermiculite for at least a week. it s till about 85 per cent humidity and the substrate still fells moist. I had moist paper towels on the flooring of the incuabtor which was naking it 100% humid. I kept them moist so the hatchlings egg yolk wont get stuck to it and hurt them. I removed the towels and lined the bottom with smooth plastic thus keeping the humidity less and providing a non stick flooring(hopefully) I am playing the waiting game now.
P.S. A watched pot definitely does not boil!!!

I just checked on them(again) and one of the larger plump ones is starting to hatch(YAY). I guess they will all follow suit soon. I have read that you are suppose to let them hang out in the incubator for a day or two after the hatch tp prevent dehydration. Is that true? I always removed my snakes right away but I dont know about lizards.

I want to just respond to you even though I am not a expert. I believe that you are to keep them in there for 24-48 hours. Hopefully some of these other guys will pipe in as well (the real experts) congrats on "our" baby bearded dragons.

I don't know what your incubator looks like so just be sure there are no hazards. No water to drown in, no way to get burned on the heating element etc.

If the yolk sack is gone and they are active I move them to baby bins. Most times that is the same day if they hatch in the am. I have never left them in the incubator for more than 24 hours or so after hatching.

I dont know if there is a problem. The hatchling was starting to push through the egg. it had a little bit of his nose out anf know it withdrew back into the egg, its been a couple of hours with no second attempt to come out. Is this normal? Should I assist. i havent seen the egg move at all either. A second egg went from a small slit to full head breach in a matter of an hour, I am pretty worried about the first one

Give it a little more time. It's always preferable to let them hatch on there own. Somtimes they pop out right away but it can take several hours. It will be tempting to help speed along the process but don't. DO NOT add any additional moisture. High moisture contact this late in the game will cause nothing but problems.

For your next clutch do not allow humidity to exceed 85%. I actually never messure humidity. The incubation substrate should not feel moist to the touch this late in the game. You should see a little, very little, condensation in the container.

Congrats again and enjoy your hatchlings!

Way to go! Leave them be for a day or two.