Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A few of the 2008 kings I've acquired this year have been showing a strange illness. At first it was only a group of siblings that were showing any symptoms, but since a couple more have shown symptoms. At this point, 3 of the snakes have died, 1 appears to have recovered and is doing well, and the other is still sick.

What happens is that the snake's mid section will swell up, looking like it has just eaten a meal. Palpating the area of the swell you can feel something that feels like a pinkie. It feels somewhat solid. Then occasionally the mid section will inflate to the point that it feels rock solid. And then in the same day it will deflate to the point the snake looks absolutely normal. Because these snakes will inflate and deflate in a short period of time, it seems like its gas.

This does not happen in conjunction with a meal. I've let these snakes go weeks without eating and they still show the same symptoms. When fed, these snakes defecate normally and do not appear to be impacted.

All these snakes have never been fed live anything. It has all been frozen thawed. Parasites seem unlikely. So I'm left with this either being a pathogen, or environmental. I recently moved to an area with much lower humidity, and much harder water.

I've never had any problem like this before with any of my snakes. I've never heard of anyone else having this happen with their snakes. I took some of the affected snakes to a veterinarian, but they were deflated and looked 100% normal when I brought them in.

Have any of them been regurging meals? Do any of their stools have an unusual smell or look strange?
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Randy Whittington

All meals seem to be passing through fine.

They seem to be passing a lot of this:

Which looks to be urine/urates to me. The color seems to be more yellow/greenish than it should be, but I really haven't spent all that much time analyzing snake urine. The snake responsible for the contents of that picture has not eaten in about 3 weeks, and is still passing stuff that looks like that.

One of the major things in snakes that mid body swelling, runny and funky smelling stools can be symptoms of is the protazoan cryptosporidium which can be a very nasty and deadly parasite for snakes. Usually snakes are regurging once they are to the point of mid body swelling which is caused by the irritation of the stomach lining.
It would be best to take one of the snakes to a vet to be checked out if you can. If not I would at least try and get a fresh stool specimin from one and see if you can get a vets office to test it for parasites. The only problem with crypto is it can be missed easily when tested.
I would keep any that are showing symptoms in a seperate room from your other snakes. Keep them very clean and if possible use disposable gloves for each snakes enclosure and dispose them after each use until you get a better idea of what you are dealing with. There are other things that can cause those symptoms but they are classic for crypto.
If one were to pass away I would get a necropsy done.
Best of luck.
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Randy Whittington

on the dead ones. That can tell you if its is really a disease or not, and the data are then documented and helps the veterinary community learn about possibly new disease.
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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

I'll see if it is worth getting a necropsy. The snakes that have died were not much larger than hatchling size. They died while I was out of town and were put in the freezer. They're probably too damaged from being frozen to be useful at this point.

That looks like some bad stuff. Better git rid or seperate the animals (quarateen) them if you havn't already.

like Randy said it does look and sound alot like cryptosporidium. I lost about 30 snakes in the 80's due to it. I picked up some snakes from a very well known breeder and failed to quarantine them.

You can transmit it from one enclosure to another so done hadle multiple snakes or transfer water bowls or hides from cage to cage.

It took my vet about a month to diagnose it thru stool samples because they need to find the organisms when the shed (die and come out in the poop).

They tested the same snake's stool 3 or 4 times before finding it. So if you do get a negitive test, be aware it does not mean your snakes are definitely clean. Also do not sell, trade, or give any of your animals to anyone else, even if they are not displaying symptoms.

Killing the organisms is difficult I remember soaking bowls and hides in a strong bleach solution for hours.

Good luck
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

I'll be getting fecal exams on every affected snake to see whats going on. I can get them done for $13 a pop, which isn't that bad, though repeated tests can add up.

I do not believe this is crypto. The snakes can go from normal to swollen in a matter of minutes, and none of the snakes have regurged. The onset was pretty quick. Some snakes I brought in to my collection showed symptoms the next day. This seems inconsistent with what I have read on crypto.

I do have the snakes removed from my main snake room, but it is possible I have asymptomatic snakes carrying whatever this is still in my snake room.

I agree and don't think crypto could do anything in one day if some showed symptoms the next day you got them home. Where does their water come from? I'm just wondering if something else could be irritating thier stomach that fast. Have you fed them at least once before they show the swollen mid section? What bedding are your source of feeder rodents kept on? It looks like you use paper for the snakes cage lining?
I'm just trying to think of things to rule out.
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Randy Whittington

Most snakes had been fed frozen thawed rodents before showing symptoms. One hadn't. I get my mice from American Rodent Supply and Rodentpro. A couple snakes had been fed pieces of rat snakes that had died in the egg at full term. Other had their mice scented with these same snake's blood. A couple snakes have only had thawed unscented rodents.

Up until yesterday I'd been giving all my snakes unfiltered tap water. The tap water here is very hard and sediments build up quickly in the water dishes. I just switched to using bottled distilled water for the time being.

I use the local newspaper as a substrate. I've never had a problem with newspaper though I suppose I could go back to using aspen bedding.

stop using distilled water.

I don't know if distilled water can kill your snakes that fast but it is definitely no good for them. the distilling takes aways salts and minerals from the water. When the snake drinks it the water draws the salts and minerals from the animal.
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

did your vet do a fecal?
what you are describing is likely a amoeba/protazoan infection of some kind. easily detectable via fecal and very treatable. often flagelettes build up in dirty water bowls, once established amoeba can be spread from cage to cage by the lil carrion flies thus affecting all your snakes.
a good vet will get a fecal via a flush(enama) if you cant provide one, and in the meantime i would move all affected snakes to at least another room preferably another physical location until diagnosis is made. monitor unaffected snakes very closely.
good luck
,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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