Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone, I normally post over in the Ball Python forum, however, I've been lurking over here for years. Now I'm looking for a little assistance.

I'm seriously considering coming over to the dark side and picking up a boa. I don't have any ambitions to ever breed it, but I do want an excellent looking individual. Sex and adult size are not issues for me. I also don't really care to get any morphs. Ball morphs are cool, but most other species of pythons and boas I prefer in their wild type form.

I've been leaning towards getting a Suriname, but I am still unsure. I have well over a decade of experience with reptiles and amphibians and there are not too many species I would feel uncomfortable working with.

These are my criteria:
-Must have a large red tail (Brazilians are nice but their tail is too short)
-Must have a silver/grey ground color as an adult. I don't really care for the browning out I see in a lot of adults and I'm not sure how much of this is an effect of the camera vs. being actually representative of the animals.
-I would like something that looks like the Peruvian John J. (madisonrecords) posted below... but something that looks like that as an adult.

The colors need to "pop" and I'd like to keep the speckling to a minimum.

I know this will mostly be dependent on the individual animal, but I'm just looking for general recommendations (for your experiences) of species/localities that would fit best into my criteria. Would a Suri be a good choice?

Since I'm only getting one I can afford to be picky and am more than willing to be patient enough for the right animal to come around.

Let me help you out with one little thing Brandon. I know what those Ball Python people have told you over there. I am a Ball Python guy myself. I own one. LOL One. Though I bred them successfully years before almost all the other Ball Python guys did back in 1988 or 1989. But I digress, and I'm trying to help you out here. Seriously.

You mentioned you are thinking about "coming over to the dark side". Now I know that a few Ball guys over there are very intolerant of anyone who has stuff outside of Ball Pythons. Boa guys aren't nearly so judgmental. Sure we all understand the fact that Ball Pythons are merely basically brain stems in comparison to the giant intellect that you will find in your average Boa, in comparison mind you. But we can appreciate the beauty found in Balls and the Beauty found in Boas, along with the personality, inquisitiveness and inherent overall greater satisfaction that comes from keeping Boas. Now we all know these things to be true and yet, you have been led astray by the Ball guys over there who have done everything they could to keep you in that narrow, and dark underworld that is the Ball Python world. Here is the real truth Brandon. And remember this as it has been said more than once before, "The truth will make you free!"

When you delve outside of the Ball Python world and dip the tip of your big toe into the Boa world, you are making that first step OUT from the dark side and into the light! Make no mistake. There are some crazy unbelievable Ball Pythons out there! But the "dark side" as you called it, is where you have been Brandon. Come into the light Brandon! You will be glad that you did! Welcome...

By the way, get what you like Brandon. Surinams are great animals. Females tend to be larger than males. But don't limit yourself to only Surinams. There are many other "Wild Type" different locality Boas out there as well. Have fun on your trek into the Boa world! The water is warm!!!
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I know... Balls are the real evil in the world (but don't tell THOSE guys I said that!)

Honestly, I've been keeping and breeding balls for a long time. I've kept other snakes in the past (both big and small - quite a few species - burms to bulls). I had a friend who used to have an pretty sizable collection of boas (Columbians, if I remember correctly) and I would often help him clean and feed.

After I got married and started having kids my available space became increasingly limited ball pythons became easier to keep and with the various colors and patterns that were emerging I had a few "must have" morphs on my list.

I'll be the first to admit that ball pythons have a more "subdued" personality (in general) and that is one reason I'm looking to diversify my collection again. I'll be buying a new house in the spring and will have more space to devote to some of the display cages and tanks that I would like to have again. Racks are alright, but it's hard to show someone your collection in a favorable manner when it looks like all of your snakes are locked away in a dark drawer (this is especially difficult for non-snake people to grasp).

So...THAT is why I want to get a boa or two. No breeding. No morphs needed. I prefer the wild types boas for the same reason another person might prefer a certain morph of a ball... they are simply more visually appealing to me. In fact, outside of ball pythons, there are very few "morphs" of any other species that I prefer over their wild type counter part.

You are only a couple hours away from me, Jeff, and I've been tossing around the idea of requesting an invite for quite a few years now, but it seems I never am able to find the time anyways.

"In fact, outside of ball pythons, there are very few "morphs" of any other species that I prefer over their wild type counter part."

That's because balls are boring! lol

j/k

kinda

Good luck finding a boa you can live with!

All of the animals above are animals I've owned and/or produced. The one below is a friends that's here on breeder loan. All Guyana BCC

jb
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Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

Jonathan, what "type" (locality, whatever) is the snake in the first two pics? He/She has the bold colors and clean (speckle-free) ground color I'm looking for. A little more brown than I'd like, but if that is something that I won't be able to select for then so be it.

Balls boring? Maybe. Secretive? Sure. However, I do have a few in my collection that definitely do not fit the typical ball python mold. They are pretty "out going" if that can be said for a snake. The rest are happy to eat and chill in their hides. If they are healthy and content then I'm okay with that.

Hey Brandon,
All of the animals pictured in that post are Guyana BCC. They are the less popular next door neighbors to the Suriname BCC. Literally. Guyana is on the west side of the Courantyne river and Suriname is on the east side of the Courantyne river.
They're the same snake from a scientific classification standpoint. And really the main difference is the country of export - which was decided by man made lines on a map with the river acting as a guide.

But at some point, it became cool to have a Suriname, and Guyanans were just garbage snakes. In reality, what happened was if it was good looking BCC from Guyana, the country of export miraculously was changed from Guyana to Suriname once it hit either the exporter, or the private owners hands I'm a little bitter if you can't tell, lol. I also like to pull for the underdog hence my love for Guyana BCC.

SO anyway, the animal in the first pic is a female I produced this year using the female in the second pic and a nice male. The female in the second pic is the same animal in the fifth pic that's wrapped around the two smaller males in the grass. However, the 2nd pic is from very recently and the 5th pic is from about 3-4 years ago. She has faded in intensity with regards to her color over the years. She's also had two litters which is partly (or maybe mostly) to blame for the dulling of her colors. The animal in the 4th pic is one of her sons from last year.

As for balls, I was giving you a hard time. I had a female a few years ago that was just as "outgoing" (if you will) as any boa I've ever had. They can be quite enjoyable!

Here's the single best picture (and most representative on that day) of the female that produced those two litters for me that I've ever taken, she was 2 years old when the pic was taken:

The days she looked like that were QUITE enjoyable

Here are my top 2.2 picks from her litter this year

And the girl in the first pic in the previous post (as well as the pic above with her siblings) on a REALLY colorful day

That's one of the TRULY GREAT things about boas, they change colors. Some of them change colors a LOT.

Brown is going to be hard to get away from in boas Brandon, especially with your criteria for no morphs. Heck, some boas are ALL brown! lol

Again, best of luck finding what you're looking for!
jb
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Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

Welcome to the boa world! (I am still LOL at Jeff's post.)

I deal with BCi not the true red tails, but figured I'd throw in my $0.02 anyways.

(I stole this, I think from BoaWoman) BOAS are Best Of All!

Boas develop the yellow coloration as they age (hense, they turn tan/brown) so it can be difficult to look at a pretty gray baby now and figure out how much they will brown-up. The best way to tell is to look at pictures of the parents. Nice light, low-yellow parents are more likely to produce the same in their offspring. Peruvians are the yellow boas of the true-red tail world. Brazilians tend to stay ligher, more silver/gray or blonde if you prefer but as you noticed they also have the shorter red tail. A Suri or Guyana is probably going to be your best bet out of the BCcs. I would suggest contacting some breeders and letting them know what you are looking for, maybe they have some paired up now that would meet your criteria!
Good luck on your search!
-April
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

So what you are saying is that besides for making an "educated guess" based on the parent's appearance there are no indicators in the individual babies that I can look for that would tell me which ones are more prone to brown out?

Is this the same with the speckling that I see? Will clean babies eventually speckle up or is this something I can make a better estimate of by looking at the individual when it is young?

>>So what you are saying is that besides for making an "educated guess" based on the parent's appearance there are no indicators in the individual babies that I can look for that would tell me which ones are more prone to brown out?

pretty much! I've seen some very light babies that turned quite dark surprisingly.

>>Is this the same with the speckling that I see? Will clean babies eventually speckle up or is this something I can make a better estimate of by looking at the individual when it is young?

Actually the speckles are set at birth, they might show up a little more as the snake gains contrast but they won't actually get more speckles, a clean baby will be a clean adult.

Happy hunting!
-April
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

Thanks, April, you've been a big help. I have one or two animals that I've seen on a few breeder's sites that I'm interested in. I'll let you all know if and when I pick one up (pics are obviously guaranteed).

This guy will be a pretty crazy looking adult. He may not be silver but he is getting whiter and whiter. Anyway, best of luck to you. It wasn't that long ago that I decided to sell my colubrid collection(which I successfully kept/bred for better than ten years) and take on something more challenging like the boas. And they are more challenging in every step of the way in my opinion. But when you see one like this guy in the cage with 48 siblings,.......it makes it all worthwhile! Best of luck in your ventures. Mike Panichi

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honesty is my only policy

Great looking snake, Mike! Paradox albino? I like the uniqueness of his look. Definitely would be the only person on the block with something like that.

Well, since you brought it up, I call that one a sunglow paradox and this one the albino paradox. Thanks. Happy New Year. Mike Panichi

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honesty is my only policy

Balls are ugly....no pun intended....Go Guyana!

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3.2 Chondros (Aru / Sorong / Biak / Merauke / Mix)
1.1 Eastern Indigo
1.1 Retic (Calico x Dwarf / Calico)
2.5 BCC/BCI (Peruvian / Albino / Albino Het / Guyana)
2.2 Crested Gecko
1.0 Western Hognose
1.1 Rubber Boa
1.1 Western Coachwhip
1.2 Black Racer
1.3 Homo Sapiens
1.0 Pit Bull
0.1 Bull Terrier

Now THAT is what I am talking about! Wow!

suris guyanas peruvians I own em all and love I all bccs
peruvians are by far my favorite bcc the the gold color with the poping large red tail on one of these is a sure bet. I got this female from jj a while back .Even though I know what he paid for this girl I still feel I stole her from him .

Great looking boa - is that a recent picture? How old is that boa? If it is an older pic - do you have any newer pics to compare it to?