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I have a couple of BRNs. Presumably male & female but that is of course only a guess. I bought them young and started raising them together. They had some health issues that were overcome and they began eating and growing very quickly.

The growth has stayed fairly steady, the appetites of these little one's have left me stunned and nearly broke

I noticed the *male has gotten considerably larger than the *female and aggressive towards her. To the point of chasing her around the enclosure and when ever possible biting her. I have on a few occasions picked each animal up and held them separate from one another. The *male has absolutely no interest in my holding him and continues to try to bite the *female if they are with in range of each other. I have changed the arrangement of the cage a few times but to me it seems as though the *male is staking out a constantly growing territory.

I noticed a few bite marks (no serious wounds) on the *female and have separated her for some time to heal & eat as much as she desires. There was some competition over food also.

These are just a few observations and ideas on my part. Very possibly some incorrect assumptions and actions. But I believe they are in need of larger housing and some time apart. Mostly for her to grow and to insure her health.

I may also be off in my guess of them being the opposite sex and it could really be a territory / dominance issue.

I have no idea but in lieu of the recent discussion topics I offer this to any who wish to comment.

Later days, Gene

* indicates my guess as to the sex of the animal*

hey gene,
how big are the BRNs now? i recently got an AWESOME male dumeril monitor, it was unexpected... i remember you saying you wanted one. email me if you want him. i would rather sell him to you at a low price, than to ship him. hes EXTREMELY tame.
like i said email for more info if your interested.
later

I'm guessing they need more room, if they had more room, they can stay away from each other when they want. That is my guess. Monitors love their space, especially as adults.

I held back a pair of dumerils I bred. They got along fine for about six months or so, then they began to fight. It was mostly kept to wrestling and throwing each other around (I video taped it), it was kinda funny.
Then one started to not eat really well, so I put it in it's own cage and it turned around.
After a few months, I put them back together and they get along well. The animal that wasn't eating well is now dominant and also male.
The really funny ting is that they are a sexual pair, male and female, and they have been raised together since hatching, literally out of the egg.
Much the same way you don't always get along with your wife, monitors don't always agree. I just think they express their feelings differently than we do.
Good Luck.

Oh yeah it was me

I have had similiar issues with a pair of jobiensis that I got when they were fairly young.

From the case I had, larger enclosures and more hides made it worse. This is not some sort of rule, I am sure it could have gone the other way, but it is something to think about.

I do know, that the two have been together since July with minimal squables and only a tiny bit of blood (and I am not sure it was caused by the other monitor).

I am not really sure that what I have seen was:
1) Monitors not liking each other
2) Monitors working out how to get along with each other
3) Monitors in a bad mood
4) Spoiled monitors
5) Bad Luck
6) All of the above
7) Some of the above
8) None of the above

hahahaha

Well, keep at it Gene, don't lose hope. Good Luck!

--Robert

Young monitors do not fight because of their sex. they fight for belongings, just like you and your brothers/sisters. Thats my dag gum toy and you stay away from it. I mean really, do little kids fight because of their sex? Give me the dang crayon. Blue if you don't mine.

Really how simple is it suppose to be? Please ask yourself why sex would be considered when the animals are immature?

Its a case of you wanting to know something and the monitors not caring what you want, they are just being monitors(kids)

Please think about it. You know I hate these type of analogies, but its this or calling you fellas numbskulls. How funny, do you think your kids are mating when one gets on top the other??? If naivity was pain, we would all be screaming.

You must also consider, the more toys they have, the more they will have conflicts on whom gets to play with what. You should also know, if a monitor wants another dead, it will kill it. Remember, they have guns and know how to use them. F

I know it gets tiring saying stuff over & over but it is completely new to me and I don't recall reading anything where you said that. Either way I appreciate your posting it again.

I think that if the BRNs are the same sex it could have something to do with it. I have had them for a year now and they were young when I got them but probably not hatchlings. That would make them old enough to have those problems wouldn't it?

I don't think the problem lays in the sex of the monitor either quite honestly. I have a feeling that they are squabbling over something. Favorite log, hide spot, or something (toys). It does so happen that they have more toys in that cage then their previous ones. Another reason that is the cause.

As far as the specific cause I really don't know. I feel it is time to separate them for a short period. Like Richard said with his Dums and Robert did with his peachies. I definitely plan on putting them back together later. I know first hand that if a monitor wants another dead it will kill it. I have seen it.

I grow tired of all the "great advice" on this board and thought we could discuss behaviors and perhaps by osmosis some newbies could learn something too.

I have separated the two and the smaller one basked for some time and now hides quite a bit. I don't think the larger one was allowing the smaller one to the things it wanted to do. (Bask, hide, rest, eat, etc) Neither of their appetites are effected. They are still strong as ever. It just happens that the larger one can hold more food.

Any other thoughts? I was hoping Goon would show up for this too.

Thanks Frank, Richard, & Robert.

Gene

The stuff you are describing, is way over my experience level. I have not a clue what is going on with yours.
What I can relate is how mine are, not sure if it will help.
Mine were acquired as adults. The female was raised all by her lonesome by a pet owner who tired of her. When I brought home the big WC male, she was very interested in him and followed him like a puppy for months. Slept with him, followed him to the basking shelf, to the water tub, etc. If he puffed and hissed at me, so would she. If he whipped at me, she'd lamely mimic him. The novelty wore off after six months or so. About the time he started to relax in my presence (a tad), and notice her for the fertile female she is.
Now she wants OUT of the cage half the time, because he takes all her food, hogs the basking spot, and wants sex all the time. I confess to letting her sleep outside the cage many a time, because I feel sorry for her being chased by a male twice her size. Try telling a behemoth you have a headache.
In short, the new cages will have dividers built for them, with separate basking and water containers, so the females can have time and space alone, should the need arise. I'm thinking its normal to need time alone once in a while, I don't think its because she doesn't like him. She does. She definately prefers him to the other male I have. I'm still guessing at this stuff, I'm just lucky to have such forgiving animals to work with. I love them so much.
Good luck with yours.
D.

If it were me, I would let the female stay in the main cage and remove the male. I think it is very important that the female be allowed to establish her territory.
I always introduce males into a females cage, never a female into a males cage.
Having said that, you are doing something that is working, stick with it.
Good Luck

I figured as much. I had read the Goannas book by King and Green, and it described how females are homebodies, and the males the adventurous ones. Frank had mentioned also that male monitors enjoy change. That's why I'm planning on making the female feel as secure as possible.
I bother her as little as possible as it is. When I feel like pestering a monitor, the lone male gets it, lol. He must be awfully lonely, as he tolerates neck scratching pretty good now, and always comes forward when I open the cage. Then of course, I must give him 'treats', and of course more time out of the cage, because he's all alone in a tiny cage and I feel sorry for him. I know I really should part with him, but it just gets harder... The animosity between the two males grows, whenever War is let out, he's all over the lone male's cage, looking for a way in. Gets real uppity with me when I try to pull him off of there. He gets agitated and flips the water dish when he sees the lone male walking anywhere. So I took the water pan out, and they get a small bucket to drink out of. Which sucks because the female enjoys stretching out in the water. Oh well, soon, this will change.
Lizards are pretty strong, and need sturdy stuff. That is my observation. And they watch everything the other lizards do. Rudis stay hidden a lot, but I always see those pointy noses watching me. And if I do something unusual, like drill or paint something, the males come out for a closer look. I guess I am a part of their circle, too.
D.