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A reply for CrimsonKing

jfirneno Jan 03, 2009 06:15 PM

Mark:

I was reading through the posts from last month and thought of something to add to your post "Are you warming up to Scotophis as the Latin genus moniker for the woodland rat snakes?
I was barely able to stomach Pantherophis!!".

Here's my appraisal as a simple hobbyist:

Ratsnake Taxonomy

Those who view ratsnakes as just fun and games
Never get riled about kinship and names.
A ratsnake’s a ratsnake as far as they care
As long as it eats mice and its sidewall is square.
They want it to feed and they want it alive
They want it to breed and the hatchlings to thrive.
They want it to drink from a round plastic bowl
And they’d like it to look like a barbershop pole.
These things mean the world to the average hobbyist
But they mean less than nothing to the serious taxonomist.

Where the one sees an orange phase E. lindheimeri
The other sneers caustically and opines contrary.
“Why that’s nothing at all but a plain obsoletus
And your naming convention is plain obsolete t’us.
No one says Elaphe for those anymore
That kind of ignorance is surely a bore”.
Pantherophis was trendy way back in ‘05
But Scotophis replaced it and made it seem jive.
Now all of the cladists who hang in the ‘hood
Use Pituophis for ratsnake and say it is good.

If a snake-guy speaks up and states his objection
He’s sure to be given a long-winded correction.
In a flash he’s beseiged by a swarm of detractors
Clarifying his errors with technical factors.
Similarities of structure, lifestyle and form
Are swept to the side with derision and scorn.
“Sure they both look the same and feed just alike
But that argument already has come down the pike.
We’ve heard it before and we certainly don’t buy it.
We aren’t convinced so don’t even try it.
Just look at this cladogram in plain black and white
The branches are solid, the numbers are tight.
Those families are separated by three different levels
They’re as different as if they were angels and devils”.

So thoroughly chastened the snake-guy retreats
He can’t speak the language, it’s too hard a feat.
If he happens to have a background in science
He may pick up some books as an act of defiance.
He’ll read about cloning DNA mitochondrial
He’ll stay up all night behaving insomnial.

Eventually he’ll be able to the read through this stuff
And know what is solid and know what is guff.
And what does he find when he’s gotten this far?
That a bunch of what’s out there is wholly sub-par.
The probability values for the branches as shown
Would get you thrown out if they were odds on a loan.
Thirty percent or per cent forty two
Is hardly enough to define as a clue.
Instead of using these studies it always prevails
To select for the truth by a flip heads or tails.

And then if you read what the science types say
About these same studies, the yea and the nay,
You’ll soon come to see that it’s not quite transparent
As to what’s still a guess and what’s most apparent.

“What you take for kinship is only convergence”
“Have you gone mad! That’s dispersive divergence.
They’ll point out a clear case of symplesiomorphy
Or debate homoplasy versus synapomorphy.
They’ll argue for Bayesian versus strict parsimony
They’ll say that the Cladists are full of baloney.

They’ll argue these points till the cows have come home
And when all’s said and done they’ll have written a tome.
But the answer of whether they’re Elaphe or not
Will have advanced back or forth not even a jot.

So my advice to the hobbyist there scratching his head
Is call them whatever you want without dread.
The eggheads have pondered and tested and claimed
But a ratsnake’s a ratsnake whatever it’s named.

Regards
John

Replies (22)

jhnscrg Jan 03, 2009 07:19 PM

Best overview of the whole names nightmare ever written, send it into the Herp Journals, PLEASE! LOL

Matthew
ROFLMAO

antelope Jan 03, 2009 07:55 PM

Bravo! Encore, encore! Why is a king a king?
-----
Todd Hughes

jfirneno Jan 04, 2009 11:55 AM

I like to have a little fun with the hobby while the snakes are asleep for the winter. Why should Dr. Seuss have all the fun.

Matt: The journals would not be amused!

Todd: I'll have to consult with the kingsnake keepers to see what's most annoying about present taxonomy before I jump in that pool. The only king I have is a ten year old male blairi alterna that is the easiest snake in my collection.

Best regards
John

CrimsonKing Jan 04, 2009 11:56 AM

haha! Well done!
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

draybar Jan 04, 2009 02:55 PM

>>Mark:
>>
>>I was reading through the posts from last month and thought of something to add to your post "Are you warming up to Scotophis as the Latin genus moniker for the woodland rat snakes?
>>I was barely able to stomach Pantherophis!!".
>>
>>Here's my appraisal as a simple hobbyist:
>>
>>
>> Ratsnake Taxonomy
>>
>>Those who view ratsnakes as just fun and games
>>Never get riled about kinship and names.
>>A ratsnake’s a ratsnake as far as they care
>>As long as it eats mice and its sidewall is square.
>>They want it to feed and they want it alive
>>They want it to breed and the hatchlings to thrive.
>>They want it to drink from a round plastic bowl
>>And they’d like it to look like a barbershop pole.
>>These things mean the world to the average hobbyist
>>But they mean less than nothing to the serious taxonomist.
>>
>>Where the one sees an orange phase E. lindheimeri
>>The other sneers caustically and opines contrary.
>>“Why that’s nothing at all but a plain obsoletus
>>And your naming convention is plain obsolete t’us.
>>No one says Elaphe for those anymore
>>That kind of ignorance is surely a bore”.
>>Pantherophis was trendy way back in ‘05
>>But Scotophis replaced it and made it seem jive.
>>Now all of the cladists who hang in the ‘hood
>>Use Pituophis for ratsnake and say it is good.
>>
>>If a snake-guy speaks up and states his objection
>>He’s sure to be given a long-winded correction.
>>In a flash he’s beseiged by a swarm of detractors
>>Clarifying his errors with technical factors.
>>Similarities of structure, lifestyle and form
>>Are swept to the side with derision and scorn.
>>“Sure they both look the same and feed just alike
>>But that argument already has come down the pike.
>>We’ve heard it before and we certainly don’t buy it.
>>We aren’t convinced so don’t even try it.
>>Just look at this cladogram in plain black and white
>>The branches are solid, the numbers are tight.
>>Those families are separated by three different levels
>>They’re as different as if they were angels and devils”.
>>
>>So thoroughly chastened the snake-guy retreats
>>He can’t speak the language, it’s too hard a feat.
>>If he happens to have a background in science
>>He may pick up some books as an act of defiance.
>>He’ll read about cloning DNA mitochondrial
>>He’ll stay up all night behaving insomnial.
>>
>>Eventually he’ll be able to the read through this stuff
>>And know what is solid and know what is guff.
>>And what does he find when he’s gotten this far?
>>That a bunch of what’s out there is wholly sub-par.
>>The probability values for the branches as shown
>>Would get you thrown out if they were odds on a loan.
>>Thirty percent or per cent forty two
>>Is hardly enough to define as a clue.
>>Instead of using these studies it always prevails
>>To select for the truth by a flip heads or tails.
>>
>>And then if you read what the science types say
>>About these same studies, the yea and the nay,
>>You’ll soon come to see that it’s not quite transparent
>>As to what’s still a guess and what’s most apparent.
>>
>>“What you take for kinship is only convergence”
>>“Have you gone mad! That’s dispersive divergence.
>>They’ll point out a clear case of symplesiomorphy
>>Or debate homoplasy versus synapomorphy.
>>They’ll argue for Bayesian versus strict parsimony
>>They’ll say that the Cladists are full of baloney.
>>
>>They’ll argue these points till the cows have come home
>>And when all’s said and done they’ll have written a tome.
>>But the answer of whether they’re Elaphe or not
>>Will have advanced back or forth not even a jot.
>>
>>So my advice to the hobbyist there scratching his head
>>Is call them whatever you want without dread.
>>The eggheads have pondered and tested and claimed
>>But a ratsnake’s a ratsnake whatever it’s named.
>>
>>
>>Regards
>>John
>>

John
You are a master.
We Are Not Worthy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I bow before you...or at least before my monitor.
excellent!

-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

FRoberts Jan 04, 2009 04:27 PM

>>Mark:
>>
>>I was reading through the posts from last month and thought of something to add to your post "Are you warming up to Scotophis as the Latin genus moniker for the woodland rat snakes?
>>I was barely able to stomach Pantherophis!!".
>>
>>Here's my appraisal as a simple hobbyist:
>>
>>
>> Ratsnake Taxonomy
>>
>>Those who view ratsnakes as just fun and games
>>Never get riled about kinship and names.
>>A ratsnake’s a ratsnake as far as they care
>>As long as it eats mice and its sidewall is square.
>>They want it to feed and they want it alive
>>They want it to breed and the hatchlings to thrive.
>>They want it to drink from a round plastic bowl
>>And they’d like it to look like a barbershop pole.
>>These things mean the world to the average hobbyist
>>But they mean less than nothing to the serious taxonomist.
>>
>>Where the one sees an orange phase E. lindheimeri
>>The other sneers caustically and opines contrary.
>>“Why that’s nothing at all but a plain obsoletus
>>And your naming convention is plain obsolete t’us.
>>No one says Elaphe for those anymore
>>That kind of ignorance is surely a bore”.
>>Pantherophis was trendy way back in ‘05
>>But Scotophis replaced it and made it seem jive.
>>Now all of the cladists who hang in the ‘hood
>>Use Pituophis for ratsnake and say it is good.
>>
>>If a snake-guy speaks up and states his objection
>>He’s sure to be given a long-winded correction.
>>In a flash he’s beseiged by a swarm of detractors
>>Clarifying his errors with technical factors.
>>Similarities of structure, lifestyle and form
>>Are swept to the side with derision and scorn.
>>“Sure they both look the same and feed just alike
>>But that argument already has come down the pike.
>>We’ve heard it before and we certainly don’t buy it.
>>We aren’t convinced so don’t even try it.
>>Just look at this cladogram in plain black and white
>>The branches are solid, the numbers are tight.
>>Those families are separated by three different levels
>>They’re as different as if they were angels and devils”.
>>
>>So thoroughly chastened the snake-guy retreats
>>He can’t speak the language, it’s too hard a feat.
>>If he happens to have a background in science
>>He may pick up some books as an act of defiance.
>>He’ll read about cloning DNA mitochondrial
>>He’ll stay up all night behaving insomnial.
>>
>>Eventually he’ll be able to the read through this stuff
>>And know what is solid and know what is guff.
>>And what does he find when he’s gotten this far?
>>That a bunch of what’s out there is wholly sub-par.
>>The probability values for the branches as shown
>>Would get you thrown out if they were odds on a loan.
>>Thirty percent or per cent forty two
>>Is hardly enough to define as a clue.
>>Instead of using these studies it always prevails
>>To select for the truth by a flip heads or tails.
>>
>>And then if you read what the science types say
>>About these same studies, the yea and the nay,
>>You’ll soon come to see that it’s not quite transparent
>>As to what’s still a guess and what’s most apparent.
>>
>>“What you take for kinship is only convergence”
>>“Have you gone mad! That’s dispersive divergence.
>>They’ll point out a clear case of symplesiomorphy
>>Or debate homoplasy versus synapomorphy.
>>They’ll argue for Bayesian versus strict parsimony
>>They’ll say that the Cladists are full of baloney.
>>
>>They’ll argue these points till the cows have come home
>>And when all’s said and done they’ll have written a tome.
>>But the answer of whether they’re Elaphe or not
>>Will have advanced back or forth not even a jot.
>>
>>So my advice to the hobbyist there scratching his head
>>Is call them whatever you want without dread.
>>The eggheads have pondered and tested and claimed
>>But a ratsnake’s a ratsnake whatever it’s named.
>>
>>
>>Regards
>>John
>>
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts

rugbyman2000 Jan 04, 2009 08:38 PM

Bravo! Great poem.
-----
Jesse Rothacker
Forgotten Friend Reptile Sanctuary
www.forgottenfriend.org

jfirneno Jan 05, 2009 10:09 AM

Mark:
The winter's long we have to fill the time and have some fun.

Jimmy:
I am the master... of goofiness! To paraphrase Denzel in Training Day "Dr. Seuss ain't got nothing on me"!

Jesse:
Thanks. I like to have some fun with the hobby. Sometimes this stuff gets way too serious.

Regards
John

emily_jones Jan 05, 2009 01:33 PM

With your permission ... I would like to print this out ... mat it and frame it for my snake room wall!

Any objections?

Emily

King of Kings Reptiles

maxrr Jan 05, 2009 06:14 PM

Man, that was so well done! Quite a talent!

Max

-----
Snakes to the Max

jfirneno Jan 05, 2009 09:53 PM

Thanks Max. But it's more of a sickness than a talent. Hey I like your mandarin stock. Very nice. Good luck with them.

Regards
John

ameratsnake Jan 07, 2009 03:40 AM

I agree. That was sick!

souix Jan 07, 2009 11:18 PM

John you are one talented Guy .. I think we should form a band the 'Ratsnake Rappers' and take that to No.1
-----
The Ratsnake Foundation Online Society

jfirneno Jan 08, 2009 07:22 AM

I figure I'll take a flat fee on the initial property and make my money on a percent of the gross and the video sales on the sequals. Happy New Year Sue.

Regards
John

buddygrout Jan 08, 2009 08:11 AM

WOW, All the poems I know usually rhyme with nantucket.

jfirneno Jan 08, 2009 11:41 AM

There once was a snake from Nantucket
Who lived his life under a bucket.
If someone picked up his house
After he’d eaten a mouse
Chances are he would up chuck it.

antelope Jan 10, 2009 05:31 PM

LOL, and the hits keep a' comin'! Great!
-----
Todd Hughes

jfirneno Jan 11, 2009 01:46 PM

NT

buddygrout Jan 10, 2009 07:56 PM

Something like that.

jfirneno Jan 11, 2009 01:44 PM

Well of course I could've gone with a more earthy limmerick but I don't think the censors would appreciate it. I remember back about thirty years ago I went to a summer course and met a guy who said that he had broken a leg that year and while laid up waiting for it to heal had spent the time memorizing a book of limmericks. He claimed to know well over a thousand of them. Based on his ability to produce one for every occaision it might have been true. Almost everyone in the class found him entertaining.

So what's the story with that photo? CB or wild? What's the description.

John

buddygrout Jan 11, 2009 04:27 PM

He is a hybrid: 25% corn, 25% yellow rat, 25% black rat, 25% barid's rat.

jfirneno Jan 11, 2009 05:08 PM

A cybbr rat! Always interesting to see how the mixes blend.

Regards
John

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