Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I bought a little king snake last week and absolutely love him. He is a very pretty snake, however the only thing bothering me with him is that he was sold to me as a desert king snake but from the pics I've seen of desert kings online, he doesn't seem to fit. My guess would that he would be a banana king, but he also seems pretty unique in comparison to most of those as well! I'm not complaining about his uniqueness, but it just makes a novice like me (This is my first snake) very confused as to what exactly I have.

The pic is a bit on the small side (I took it with my phone) however if you can't tell he's black with white blotches on the top, and a mostly white underbelly.

I would greatly appreciate any assistance.

Also, any first timer tips would be veryyyyyy helpful.

PS - My girlfriend had the clever idea to name him Henry, so that's what I went with

It is hard to tell from the pic. Does the king have white spots and stripes ontop of the back or are they yellow to cream coloured?

There is an area in s. calif which one can find desert banded stripers and abberants desert cal kings. The place is Borrego Springs or more specifaclly reffered to as scissors crossing.

If the white parts on top are more yellow then it is a coastal pahse. But without the history it is hard to tell as many breeding put desert cal kings in with coastal cal kings to breed so you may have a man-made creation and not a local specific animal.

The spots and the undercarriage are a bit more on the cream colored side than they are white, yeah. Another factor I forgot to mention is that I bought the snake in a local pet store in Tampa, Florida. I don't think they get much fancy stuff there, so maybe that'll help.

I'd be okay with considering it a man made and unique type of king snake, though .

Even the desert phases of cali kings turn yellow on the sides and bottom. Selective breeding has tried to wane this out.

FR is correct about scissors crossing and the B area. I have found abberants desert phases through outr the park. And it is a natural intergrade zone and that is why you can find abberent and striped deserts there.

Its an abberant cal king. Almost a reverse spotted morph. Or a poor reverse spotted if you will. All in all, its a cal king.

About B springs, that is about 30 or so miles from scissors crossing. But your right, Black and white, stripers are found in the area of scissors crossing.

Which is actually an intergration zone. As striping is unique to coastal kings, and extreme black and white is unique to desert kings. Of course there are brown and whites and all manner of this in areas away from SoCal.

But your right, without the history of where its founders came from, it can be only an abberant Cal king. Which is not a bad thing.

I have been playing with some reverse spotted high whites, and have produced an extreme high white reverse spotted king. Hahahahahahahahaha I will post some pics today, HOPEFULLY Cheers

"I will post some pics today, HOPEFULLY Cheers"

Oh good . . .
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

not for you sir.

But why? I am nothing short of convinced that it would really help to see how it's done in captivity by a visual aid. This should not be anything personal, as you are suggesting. And believe me, it's not just for myself but for the masses to see this proclaimed ability to provide a MULTITUDE of options within confined spaces. I'd also like to see the kingsnakes, of course! I don't see why this is SO DIFFICULT to do if the possibility really does exist.

Why not just finally state that such vast options are nearly impossible for us to do under modest captive conditions so we can enjoy talking about what they experience in the wild? Because it is extremely frustrating to have this constantly force-fed as if we are doing something wrong, when it may never really be applicable. If it is, then show us. If not, then that's okay too and we can just begin to feel some sense of pride that we are doing the best we can as hobbyists instead of thinking in ways that are just not entirely possible given what can be realistically provided by MOST keepers.

Although the discussion is intrigueing and is very valuable to make such considerations, THE REALITY IS that we will have that carrot constantly dangling in front of us if we can not reach that goal you so strongly suggest Frank. Please consider what I am saying in connection to why SEEING what you say is possible -- what you suggest is the equivalent to giving an unskilled individual construction tools and telling him to build something. The foreman, as you state you are, might need to provide a BLUEPRINT in order for the seemingly impossible task to become realized and then provide the training in order for such an accomplishment to happen. So why not go the extra inch and provide? I just don't understand and I shake my head in disbelief as to why you refuse to help us understand what YOU say IS possible. Because I highly doubt that this hobby would survive if keepers were forced to utilize an entire room in their home or apartment to achieve such an accomplishment, which would then likely make us the perfect keepers.

The reality is, is that it's just not possible to provide so much without the use of a very large space that can support and foster what you suggest. And most can not do this, SO, we spin in circles without concrete evidence from someone who claims it IS possible. Very very frustrating indeed.
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

A Padawan you no longer are. A Master you have become!
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That is a a completely narcistocanibolizistic thing to say!

Jerry,
I think the lack of anything concrete being shown shows the biggest evidence of it all.
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Genesis 1:1

>>But why? I am nothing short of convinced that it would really help to see how it's done in captivity by a visual aid. This should not be anything personal, as you are suggesting. And believe me, it's not just for myself but for the masses to see this proclaimed ability to provide a MULTITUDE of options within confined spaces. I'd also like to see the kingsnakes, of course! I don't see why this is SO DIFFICULT to do if the possibility really does exist.
>>
>>Why not just finally state that such vast options are nearly impossible for us to do under modest captive conditions so we can enjoy talking about what they experience in the wild? Because it is extremely frustrating to have this constantly force-fed as if we are doing something wrong, when it may never really be applicable. If it is, then show us. If not, then that's okay too and we can just begin to feel some sense of pride that we are doing the best we can as hobbyists instead of thinking in ways that are just not entirely possible given what can be realistically provided by MOST keepers.
>>
>>Although the discussion is intrigueing and is very valuable to make such considerations, THE REALITY IS that we will have that carrot constantly dangling in front of us if we can not reach that goal you so strongly suggest Frank. Please consider what I am saying in connection to why SEEING what you say is possible -- what you suggest is the equivalent to giving an unskilled individual construction tools and telling him to build something. The foreman, as you state you are, might need to provide a BLUEPRINT in order for the seemingly impossible task to become realized and then provide the training in order for such an accomplishment to happen. So why not go the extra inch and provide? I just don't understand and I shake my head in disbelief as to why you refuse to help us understand what YOU say IS possible. Because I highly doubt that this hobby would survive if keepers were forced to utilize an entire room in their home or apartment to achieve such an accomplishment, which would then likely make us the perfect keepers.
>>
>>The reality is, is that it's just not possible to provide so much without the use of a very large space that can support and foster what you suggest. And most can not do this, SO, we spin in circles without concrete evidence from someone who claims it IS possible. Very very frustrating indeed.
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>>Jerry Kruse
>>
>>
>>"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Yes, the lack of retort is not really convincing.
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2.4.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Copperhead
1.1.0 Eastern Box Tutles

Thank you, knowing that it's a California king I can now look for more specific tips for caring for my snake. I really appreciate it, and I'm glad to hear that it's rather unique!

Regarding your cal king, you might enjoy/benefit from D. Perlowin's book on Kingsnakes, a very concise little paperback published by AVS(?). It adresses basic care, which it sounds like you are seeking, rather than the complicated debate that has been interjected into your thread. Unique? Yes, indeed, no two seem to be identical, and that is part of the fascination with them. I have seen cal kings similar to yours in the wild in San Diego, and have bred others similar. Good luck and have fun and give your new charge the best care you can, it will be with you a long time if you do. Good, basic husbandry, primitive though it may be, will prevent costly and heart breaking health problems down the line. Best wishes, Vic H.

I didn't want to make a new thread entirely, but I also wanted to ask a few quick questions about my new snake's enclosure.

The snake is about 18" or so (I haven't gotten around to measuring him, but that's what I'd guesstimate) and when I first got him I put him in a tiny enclosure which barely had room for him to move around in. After a couple of days I really grew to hate the tiny cage, so today I went out and bought him a more permanent 10 gallon aquarium to live in. This is an appropriate size enclosure for him, right?

Also, I've currently got a couple pieces of newspaper down on the bottom of the cage, and he seems to be doing alright with it. However, I saw a post a little while back about someone who had a bunch of shredded newspaper and I think I really like that idea, gives him a chance to burrow and possibly feel a bit more comfortable in his home. Would this be beneficial?

And lastly, I'm working on giving him some quality hide spots still (of the homemade nature that is!) and I was wondering if anyone had some advice on that note. I've currently got a partial tissue box, a partial cardboard box, and a partial plastic cup in his cage right now. As I said he's only been in the cage for less than a day so it's hard to gauge how he feels about his hide spots, but I'd like to do my best to make sure he will be as comfortable as possible (preferably with homemade hides, however if store bought hides are that much better I think I can shell out a few dollars for them.)

Thanks again, sorry that my questions are so basic. I've been searching all over the internet and found a lot of good information, but I always feel more secure when I ask my specific questions myself!

yea newspaper would be fine i use that for my reptiles. Now whether or not you want to shred it is up to you. I've heard both ways.With the Hides you should be ok as well. I've had homemade hides in my tanks as well as friends of mine doing the same and their snakes all did ok with em. the tank would be ok for now. i have my adults in a 20 Long. But Younger snakes do ok in 10's.From what i've been told by a few breeders as an adult you want the tank to be at as long as half of their body.

You need to decide to: keep it simple and fairly "sterile", i.e. newspaper and card board box hide or: more complex, with "natural" features that allow burrowing, crawling, climbing, upon/through features, basking etc. Both can be done effecively and have an outwardly healthy animal. How much time are you willing to invest? Breeders produce large numbers of kings in plastic boxes with very simple set ups, clean and efficient, sort of the fish hatchery approach. Others (i.e. FR),apparently prefer set ups that offer more choices and a chance for the snake to function/exhibit a broader range of behaviors.

I like aspen bedding, it allows burrowing, which they like to do. It allows some thermoregulation if deep, as the snake can go deep near the Under tank heat source or cooler on the surface. Hides are endless, simple, cheap, but sterile in appearance are cardboard, pvc pipe sections, or commercially made one. There is a product combining a hide and water basin, I like it and so do my snakes. You can also make hides (kings like to squeeze into cracks etc.) by stacking flat pieces of rock, flagstone, slate etc., and "gluing" them together with silicon. Be wary not to create a trap with shifting, crushing rocks. Water basin is important, I like to use a deli-cup with some rocks within, and a hole cut near the perimeter of the lid to allow snake to enter and exit easily. Spill resistant.

Good luck, it is fun to think of your beginners interest and enthusiasm, which some of us may have forgotten at times. Vic H.

Thank you very much for your assistance, I really do appreciate any help .

I've heard that for younger king snakes aspen can be a bit troublesome for them, was that just a rumor?

I'm glad to see that my enthusiasm is evident even in my simple online writings ^_^.

Trouble with apen? I don't know what that would be, of course a snake,esp a juvenile, could ingest some and have a problem, or strike and get a mouth full, which could be irritating. I know that can happen in the wild even. Having tried a lot of substrates, I think aspen is a good one. Non toxic, supports tunnels/burrows, somewhat absorbent, not excessively dehydrating (i.e. Carefresh sometimes is...), affordable, etc. Paper is fine, but not visually attractive to some and does not accomodate burrowing behavior. Try to train your snake to eat frozen thawed rodents, or fresh killed, off tongs/forceps, and avoid it getting a mouth full of shavings. Avoid cedar and other aromatic shavings some of which are toxic. I killed a highly prized king FR gave me back in the early '70's with cedar...I just did not know it was toxic within a confined space. Pine shavings OK, but often too dusty, some more so than others, not a favorite of mine but others use it.

that's just gonna get pulled. That just irritates things. It is what it is. I just wanted visual proof is all, no harm in that but I'm tired of asking. I might as well try pulling water from a dry well.
By the way did you use the DSM-IV TR? Or was it WebMD? Pretty good list of symptomotologies I must say, but there's more to the diagnosis actually with regard to spans of time et al..... I've been on a long vacation so I can't help but miss the psych talk.
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Kidding aside, it was enough to make me think this is not healthy for Frank.
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That is a a completely narcistocanibolizistic thing to say!

Here's another i found:

How are things in Brooklyn? Probably not much different than over here in Queens. Throw up a pic or two and show off -- stay a while. I'm here til Thursday....try the veal . . .
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Hey Jerry,

All is well

"Lovely" weather we've been having! lol

I met a buddy of yours months ago @ the WP. Expo (Antione) ... cool guy!

I'm saving the "showing off" for next breeding/hatching season... hopefully i'll have a productive year.

but here's my Hypomelanistic-Lavender:

~Z

You should've posted a sunglasses warning!

Burned my freakin' retina!

Expect an optometrist bill in the mail soon.....

LOL. Good stuff man. Yes, Antoine is one of my best mates. Hope to meet you soon as well. We're supposed to be getting some snow fall (3 - 6" this weekend. That translates to me heading out into my huge back yard (Douglaston golf course) to go sleddin' with the kids. Booyahhh!!
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway