Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is something I hope to get going this coming season. These are locality animals from around El Rosario B.C.N. were annectens and bimaris begin to overlap in their ranges. According to the literature they do not intergrade but this population shows some similarities of both and this population is also very different from surrounding populations according to the original collectors of these.

Some individuals can be a very bright red on the posterior part of their body unlike the anterior red as seen in vertebralis.
Also albinos have been produced from this population which to me look more like albino annectens than the albino vertebralis that are out there.

wait a second,
now you say that albinos have been produced from that locale? are you sure?
Years ago I had some "hets" and they came from a guy in the San Diego area named Kevin Winters.He had also sold off a few others to a handfull of people like Shawn Sylvia and Jason VanKirk etc....
Anyway, he had collected a snake way back when and for fun he bred it to a applegate albino.So, are you sure they where produced from w/c or f1 locale specific animals?
I did produce some albinos and they where what they where.about 75% S.D. and about 25% Bimarias.

Anyway,
they where cool looking ( and looked just like the pic you posted) but I moved them down the road several years ago also.Just never could get the pure locale thought out of my way so thats the line I have walked for many years now.

L8r

Those are some good points Shannon....that got me to re-researching the origins of these guys. I would not want to mis-represent something that is not what it is supposed to be. After contacting one of the original collectors again, he verified the claim that they have not been bred with anything else. This line was started by two wild caught individuals and the first albino showed up as a dead in the egg individual in an f1 breeding. Another person did take on the project and produced the first living albino from this group. There does seem to be an influence of annectens in these animals, in both the albinos and normals, but there are differences too such as blotch count mid body scale counts which all suggests bimaris and no annectens influence. That is one thing that to me makes them so interesting, they probably should be considered bimaris but they have some annectens like characteristics which may be due to their locality, which is where the two forms come together. I was given some detailed notes of the lineage of this group, and I do not see any evidence that they are not pure locale animals and I do not think anyone has not mis-represented them to me. One of the original collectors of this group even offered a het to be bred to an Applegate because he thinks the two are not even compatible, even though this may not prove a whole lot because the Applagate trait seems to behave in some strange ways sometimes, such as two Applegate albinos producing normals. Anyway, I hope this clears up some questions and we will see what happens with these guys.

Yes and No,
If you id a test breeding with a Apleagte and didn't produce any amels then at least you would know it probably wasn't the Applegate gene used.
But, if you did it wouldn't meen it was either....Mute point I guess.

LOL.....

L8r

Whatever they are they look quite distinctive to me. Sweet looking critters!
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That is a a completely narcistocanibolizistic thing to say!

Thanks Tony.....they are different even though they would key out as bimaris and again I think that is due to the location they are from. According to range maps affinis, annectens and bimaris all come together in the El Rosario area. Hopefully I'll get some babies out of them....that is.... if I give them the right choices etc....ha ha ha... a little humor from the kingsnake forum. Hope things are going good "down east" Tony.
Scott John Reptiles

Wow, I just happened over here right now. Beautiful animals, I really like their colors and patterns.
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Mark