Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, let me elaborate a bit. I have been following the discussions in the kingsnake forum discussing "choices" for snakes and feel that in the basement (basically underground) environment it would be easier to provide many choices for the snakes to decide from.

I am thinking a basement would be a very good place to have a snake room for many reasons, including temperature and humidity. The cool temps in the winter will make it more convenient for brumation if desired, and the cool background temps in the summer should make it easier to provide a greater temperature gradient using UTHs. Also the humidity in below grade basements is much higher than that above ground.

I understand that most kings (including milks) spend a majority of their lives underground or under cover. But I am curious as to others thoughts about being totally void of natural lighting if an underground room, a basement with no windows in the room.

Anyone care to chime in on thoughts based on experience, and/or pros and cons of a snake room below ground? Thanks.
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Joe

I have whats called a "daylight" basement. That generally means one that has some sort of access to the outside. My house is built into a sloped lot, half of the "basement" is a 2 car garage that is partially underground. The rest is about 3/4 underground with a few windows in the upper part.

My herp room is in the part that is mostly underground. The biggest advantage IMO is the semi-constant temps & elevated humidity. Temps range from low 70's in the summer to low 60's in the winter, with a constant humidity of 55-60%.

My snakes are all kept in the basement.I walled off a small section and put a vented door up. It has one widnow for light and ventilation.The one thing you guys didn't mention is that the basement is wife free.Don't under estimate that feature.If you make a snake room like mine don't forget to add a few outlets and make a full frame for the door.That means that under the door also has a framed section so the snakes can;t crawl under.You may want a TV set a PC and maybe a small fridge for the refreshments.
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"Wake me when its April"
Doug L

>>The one thing you guys didn't mention is that the basement is wife free.Don't under estimate that feature.
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>>"Wake me when its April"
>> Doug L

Great input Doug, but I thought this feature was an unwritten one, lol.

I am trying to figure out how to make my doors "escape proof" now. I have doors that hang from a rail above and slide open and closed, there is a small gap below them. Thanks again for the input.
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Joe

Hey Joe, I have carpet downstairs so all I did was purchase a door sweep that has 3M tape on one side and made sure it was pretty tight to the carpet. The door is a little hard to open and I would not say it is "snake proof", but they will surely have to make more than one attempt to go under it and that will buy some extra time. Maybe they will look for other escape areas before trying again.

Thanks Joe, excellent suggestion. I'll look into that on my next trip to the Depot.
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Joe

When I framed the wall out i ran the 2x4 straight across the floor under the door.That frames the door on all 4 sides instead of three.On the snake side of the door are stops(frames) on all sides so nothing gets by the door
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"Wake me when its April"
Doug L

Thats a great idea Doug. I had intended this room for something else at first and would have love to had done that during construction if I had know it would become the snake room.

you can still do it Joe but you will have to toe nail the 2x4 now or use liquid nail plus the door would have to be cut shorter.I have lost to many snakes over the years.My dog has found a few of them for me

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"Wake me when its April"
Doug L

Guess I could huh. I probably would not cut the carpet but just place a ton of pressure on the 2x4 when nailing it. I will have to think about that one. They would have a hard time with the current set up but would succeed if they kept trying. Hmmmmmm.

I would build in set areas for them on each side of the door. I also just sent Joe a email about raising the threshold after caulking....great minds think alike!

Hey Jeff, where is that email?

send me your email address and I will forward what I sent to Joe(if you dont believe me,LOL). You will laugh at the time stamp I think....

Depending on where you might live a basement would be the best place for a snake room in my own opinion. What I mean by that is depending on where you live you wont have a basement or more specifically as in my case I live in flood zone so while my basement would be nice to use it can flood. Also with my basement right now with it being 29 degrees outside its still 53 degrees in my basement, in the summer when its 90 degrees outside its 60 degrees in my basement. Humidity actually for my basement is to great and needs to be cycled with a dehumidifier. In my house the snake room is on the second floor with all the natural lighting I need if I didn't have it blocked out.

Depending on your basement heat might be the major concern especially if its unheated. Also air quality depending on the basement might be an issue as well.

Another concen especially if you are using rack system would be lighting and light cycles..
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Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
My 2008 Care Sheet & The BRB Stats. Username: brb@kingsnake.com

Hey Joe, mine is in the basement as well and has all the advantages mentioned above. I built the room when I finished off my basement. It was originally meant to be a hunting/fishing room but the snakes took over! I installed a lot of outlets and have two overhead lights as well as a large sliding window. (room is almost all underground though) I blocked off the window with foil insulation on the outside to stop the window from sweating and so I could use the amount of light I want during winter. The snakes that I brumate are also kept in the basement and I have the choice of the storage room which stays around 57-60, or in the well pump room which goes all the way down to 48-50. Pretty nice to have the choices I must say. I am prob. going to keep all my pyros and zonata in the storage room with UTH so they have a larger gradient.

Joe, I know you found your ALBINO crawlin around your front yard....but they really do spend 99+% of their time under cover. I have only found 3 milks that werent under something. Underground are the most stable temps. Depending on your basement, a dehumidifier may or may not be necessary. Natural light is only good for taking pictures of bikinis. By the way, I got a new camera from Santa Claus and here is the first pic!

Sounds like choices and basements are the way to go, especially with all the amenities! I too have been following the thread and think a basement would do the trick. I don't live where a basement is an option so my room is an a/d'ed room with an eastern and western exposure. East blocked off partially and full western exposure filtered with tall trees. I will be moving to west Texas in a few years and hope to have a custom snake room built in.
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Todd Hughes

You definately have different hurdles down in TX than I do up here in the Northeast Todd. I'm still waiting for the pic of the "ultimate" enclosure. Unfortunately it may not exist, but it has got us thinking.
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Joe

Forget about the setup, every year milks crawl in on their own!!

>>Forget about the setup, every year milks crawl in on their own!!

Maybe one of the siblings to the albino will crawl right on in! I think I could make some room.
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Joe

>>Joe, I know you found your ALBINO crawlin around your front yard....but they really do spend 99 % of their time under cover. I have only found 3 milks that werent under something. Underground are the most stable temps. Depending on your basement, a dehumidifier may or may not be necessary. Natural light is only good for taking pictures of bikinis. By the way, I got a new camera from Santa Claus and here is the first pic!
>>

I guess the albino didn't read the book, lol.

I do run a dehumidifier in the summer. What about natural light for other species (snakes not bikinis)? Do you think it is necessary?

Nice pic by the way, now to size it a little larger. I'm not sure what you are using, but photobucket is pretty easy to use.
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Joe

I am finishing my basement as well, and the obvious choice for the snake room is void of any windows. My biggest concern is light. I have 4 cans in the ceiling that can provide plenty of light, but is artificial light going to be sufficient? It's a walkout basement, but the windowed areas are likely to be a 5th bedroom and another family room.

I have plenty of outlets in the room (about 5), and was wondering if I'd need to add any special kind of lighting given the lack of natural?
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1.0 C/B Brooks
0.1 C/B Lavender brooks
0.0.1 W/C Scarlet King
0.0.1 W/C Eastern Milk
0.0.1 W/C Yellow Rat
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1.0 C/B Black Lab
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I don't have any experience breeding in basements (snakes anyway) but lots of people do so quite effectively. I would suspect that it is actually easier to control temp and humidity ranges that are most beneficial for snakes. As for the photoperiod I really don't know what others do given a total lack of natural light. They may just simulate it with lamps and timers.

As I mentioned over at the ks forum, I have this thought about "total heat" were there is a relationship between heat and photoperiod. Keep in mind that I'm using human terms here so don't burn me at the stake for going anthropomorphic, I just don't have the time to couch this in the proper terminology. Anyway, the idea is basically that snakes equate the amount of light with the reliability of their heat source. For instance (and this is all made up) say you provide a hot spot of 85 degrees and no photoperiod. The snake interprets this as a temp marginal to facilitate digestion AND because it has no photoperiod to judge reliability it does not eat. At a 12-hour photoperiod it may still refuse to feed but at 14 hours it feeds even though the temp has not changed. Likewise, if you provide a 100-degree hot spot the snake may eat regardless of photoperiod. In any case "total heat" is a function of heat quality (how high) and reliability (duration of photoperiod). Snakes may react to 100 degrees and an 8-hour photoperiod the same way it does 85 degrees and a 14-hour photoperiod. This indicates an inverse relation ship between the two elements. If one goes down the other must go up to maintain the same behavior.

All said, if this has any merit, I would think that given a lack of a photoperiod in a basement, you'd need a warmer hot spot to keep your animals feeding well. A few degrees higher certainly can't hurt!

There is another side of this too. My room has great access to a natural photoperiod and temps are very consistent. Given this I've always seen the natural light as a limiting factor in breeding my coastals because they generally go off feed as soon as the seasonal shortening of days enters its period of maximum slope. This year I intend to adjust temps upward in late August to compensate for decreasing photoperiod and see if I can extend their feeding season another month or so. In a basement however you have complete control over both elements so back ground limiting factors are no such an issue.
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That is a a completely narcistocanibolizistic thing to say!

Hey Tony, do you think one type of artificial light is better than another. (florecent, normal light bulb, ect.) And I wonder what effect certain wattages have.(45,65, ect.) I do use my basement and provide light through either overhead florecent or a lamp on a timer. The feeding behaviors of my snakes that are still out has changed a bit. Do you think they can sense barametric changes? I am going to try bumping up the heat on the hot side of the enclosures a bit and see what happens. Leaving all else the same. I have the light on 14 hrs.a day right now.

I've forgotten most of what I know about lighting since stopping lizard breeding when my kids came on the scene. There is no real evidence that snakes benefit from uv light but I would think artificial lighting that most closely replicates the color spectrum of natural light would be the most effective at influencing behavior.
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That is a a completely narcistocanibolizistic thing to say!

For the last few years I have used rope light in lieu of heat tape. With acrylic cages this means a 24 hr photoperiod. They can get away from the lites be using hides, but I would suggest this may put to rest ideas of photoperiod and snakes. Here is a old pic but the set up is kinda the same.