Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Without naming anyone, have you ever bought a het animal and it never proved out? I've heard of it taking over forty eggs produced between hets before you get what you want but has anyone ever gotten a 100% het and breed it to an actual animal that expressed that trait and it still didn't prove out? I assume I would call or email that person but I'd like your thoughts on this.
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Pastel 1.0
Spider 1.0
Normals 1.2
Het Pied 1.0
Leopard Geckos 1.1
American Bulldog 1.0

The only 100% way to get a visual it by breeding two visual together.
Even when visual to het, Im sure there has been plenty of clutches
that only threw more hets. Guess it is just buying from who you trust
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Dave

10.14 brbs

Edited on January 8, 2009 at 17:15:34 by PHGinger.

Well I had heard that before because a friend bought some albino hets and after 27 eggs finally got one. We were starting to worry about them not being het. He has another thats het clown and I tried talking him into just buying a clown in the first place because he could afford to. Oh yeah, Snakebytes, thats the best show on the web in my book.
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Pastel 1.0
Spider 1.0
Normals 1.2
Het Pied 1.0
Leopard Geckos 1.1
American Bulldog 1.0

According to our current understanding of ball python reproduction the odds of het X het missing on 27 in a row is about 1 in 2,362. The chances of missing on 40 in a row is about 1 in 99,437.

So, while you aren't guaranteed to ever produce a homozygous I guess you have to figure how many eggs you have missed on and if you are just that unlucky one or if one or more of your animals isn't a het.

Hets come with various forms of guarantees some require a certain number of clutches, some a certain number of eggs, etc. etc. If you did have a clutch that didn't turn out any visuals -- then yes you should contact the breeder and at least let them know there may be an issue -- or maybe you just got bad odds -- but keep in touch and work with the breeder.
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Tosha
JET Pythons
Toshas Blog

Tosha,
I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense............

"Hets come with various forms of guarantees some require a certain number of clutches, some a certain number of eggs, etc. etc."

What guarantee are you talking about. You can have a pair of hets and they can never prove out, yet they are hets. What are you basing this statement on? certain number of eggs? clutches?

im sorry but there is no way to guarantee or predict when you can get a visual from hets. you just have to breed until one pops up.

what makes it even harder is the fact that ball pythons lay such few eggs and may not breed year after year.

Albert Einstein himself cannot even predict it mathematically.

Pitoon

Guarantees from the breeders -- paperwork specifying various terms and conditions - whether it be number of eggs or clutches produced without results, etc. - these terms and conditions vary from breeder to breeder so you must know those first - then after the first non proven clutch you notify the breeder of your failed results and go from there to work towards resolution.
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Tosha
JET Pythons
Toshas Blog

ha! so you were talking in terms with the original breeders and what "THEY" will guarantee.

your post make much more sense now

Pitoon

A few years ago, probally around 6 I would say, we bought a het albino female, we didnt recieve any paper work bc it was being sold by a man whos friends friend needed to sell it. I know, I thought the same thing but bought her anyway since I often saw the company at shows. We breed her the first year to a Het albino male, 8 eggs all normals. The second year we breed her to a male albino 9 eggs all normals, 3rd year we breed her to a different albino male 9 eggs all normals. Anyways you get the picture, I told the man I bought her from and he apologized and said that one of the animals he held back also did not prove out. He said to keep the animal and gave me a full refund in cash for the original amount I paid, which 6 years ago was much more then visable albinos are right now. I am sure many cases do not work out this way, but I am very happy with the man I bought her from, he stood by his word 100%.

As for guarantees on Hets, this is how I run things.

Each animal that is a het that I sell has a photo ID and a guarantee that states the animal in the picture is a 100% het for "insert morph here". If the animal does not prove then the animal will have to be sent back, match the picture, and be in overall good health. after the snake is recieved a visable morph of the same sex and morph of the het sold will be shipped to the origianl buyer at no charge. If the snake is to be sold by the original owner the document must accompany the snake in order to keep the gurantee open.

These are the standards that must be met in order for the animal to be considered normal and not a het.

1 - The het must be breed a minumum of 3 years if being breed to another het. The other het must be purchased through us since we can not gurantee the genetics of other breeders snakes.

2- If being breed to a visable animal it must be of compatable genes and must be breed for 2 years.

3- The original animal and paperwork must be returned and in good health

If all that is met then we would be more then willing to ship out a visable animal of the same morph and sex.

We have never had any problems in the past but if there was ever a mix up in records or breedings then I would stand behind our animals 100%. I personally use photo IDs and would recommend it to anyone unless you microchip. Unfortunatley there are "ugly" people in this world and some will try to take everything they can when the oppurtunity arrises, photo IDs just insure a peace of mind.

Sorry the post is so long I got carried away
Kim
WWW.northamericanreptileconnection.com
N.A.R.C

I had a het female that took 4 breeding seasons to prove out I bred her 2 years in a row , skipped a year and then bred her again to the same male as before and she proved out and got 5ghoast and 1 normal het . So it can be trying some times . The only thing that kept me from getting mad was I produced the het my self and I new she was a het .lol. David