Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click here for Dragon Serpents
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Click here to visit Classifieds

Stimulation and snakes, hmmmmmm

FR Jan 09, 2009 10:01 AM

i only read a little of the thread below, but what I read was interesting. Some folks are trying things and having fun and some having nice results.

In many cases below the stimulation is for the keeper, and that is a very good thing. Anything we do to gain interest in our CAPTIVES is a good thing. Anything we do to learn more is a good thing as well.

Sadly, some I posts I read are very narrow minded. Things like, "it would be hard for a large collection". Again, those folks are extremists. That is, that old one way or another. Because you cannot do them all the same, does not mean you cannot do any or some or half or most, or a few. Those with large collections do not have to treat them all the same. In fact, to learn you must not treat them all the same. To learn means, you have to treat them differently.

To learn you test, you must use different approaches. If you find something that you feel is absolutely needed, IN YOUR MIND, and you have to do that something to the whole collection. Then it must be very important. Then go for it, if you have too many snakes, fix that.

Many times those with lots of snakes have commented about the folks with one or a few snakes. Saying such things as, remember how much fun it was to only have a few and the joy you recieved from that. That type of statement is very very telling. And that too is easily cured. Have fewer snakes and have more fun.

This brings us back to the point, if keeping them is not so much for profit, that it must be for our own entertainment. So let the animals entertain you.

I know, I did this backwards again. So I will now go forward.

With the snakes, and this "Retes" stack thing. There are many ways and materials you can do it with. What you will learn is, The snakes are like you. They are very prejudiced. They do have things and materials they are drawn to. If You use the wrong material, or your stack ends up not being what they want. They simply ignore it.

Below someone said, my this species did this and my that species did that. but my other species perferred the ground. While that may be true, its also more about the snakes prejudice, it does lot recognize what you did. Keep trying it until it does. One test does not tell you anything. One test is a start.

Folks, before you start to come to conclusions, Try lots of things. If you are interested and want to ask what has been tried and what that resulted it, please ask. The key is to keep in interesting for you. And try to understand, these snakes are prejudiced and do require certain things that are normal parts of their lives. Cheers

Replies (20)

Jeff Schofield Jan 09, 2009 10:49 AM

Species A doesnt know its species A, a single test on single animals wont be interesting on anything but a personal level. Conclusions should not be drawn, evidence will only be anecdotal and you will stop making complete(legible?)sentences and start thinking that you know EVERYTHING which you never can.....have FUN but dont draw conclusions.

JKruse Jan 09, 2009 11:43 AM

Correlates to captive realities. Although there remains clarification about how to get such varied options (i.e. temperature extremes) into a modest-sized enclosure, this is a good start in talking more realistically, without any mixed messages, as to what we CAN do under such circumstances.

I still think it would be fun to see, via photos, what some of us are doing, including Frank. The point IS sharing non-judgmentally.

I just got home a little while ago and as I drove past my favorite garden supply center, I immediately thought about what opportunities waited there with regard to thin pieces of slate and shale. Again, my biggest concern is the snakes' safety -- I could care less how much these 28 quart tubs weigh.

Going forward, is silicone recommended as a way to fuse flat stone together? I'm pooling ideas for the springtime, and maybe even another project or two to wrap my head around during the cold months. I have some great designs conjured up but want to be safe with regard to materials used.
-----
Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

joecop Jan 09, 2009 12:15 PM

With regards to the silicone Jerry, this is what they use to seal the seam in glass tanks so I THINK it would be OK. Maybe there is a certain kind they use that has low vapors or something. Not sure myself.

Tony D Jan 09, 2009 12:20 PM

Silicone is good. Just make sure your rock is dry and cleared of dust and it holds really well. Also allow it to cure till you can no longer detect any smell and then some. You may even want to test your new fancy hide in a similar but unoccupied enclosure to make sure it isn't still gassing off. I don't know if silicone off gas is dangerous but I find it irritating. In any case a little caution wont hurt.
-----
That is a a completely narcistocanibolizistic thing to say!

JKruse Jan 09, 2009 12:27 PM

I appreciate the feed-back Senor Dongarra and Ahhhnold, lol. I look forward to shaking things up a bit. Like with starting anything new, the legs are a bit wobbly in the beginning.

I do want to hear more about the total heat thinking Tony. Realistic applications to captive settings.....I'm all ears.
-----
Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Tony D Jan 09, 2009 01:25 PM

I don't think its anything new Jerry but it is a way to measure and manage elements of husbandry that I've not had or seen before.

Late next summer as the days start to shorten I'm going to jack my hot spots some to see if I can't compensate for the decreasing photoperiod. If the animals by and large extend their feeding period then I might be onto something. This is one aspect of the discussion that I think is really neat. It may be widely impractical to provide a 40 degree temp range in a cage but we might be able to tweat it up to 20 and then provide seasonal adjustments to the rack or room to accomodate desired behavior.

It would be most cool if I could add another month or so to my coastal's feeding season.
-----
That is a a completely narcistocanibolizistic thing to say!

JKruse Jan 09, 2009 02:05 PM

Most indubitably!!!
-----
Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Patton Jan 09, 2009 04:07 PM

Jerry,
Years ago, when I worked with geckos, I would use 1/2 CPVC
and silicone to create something similar to the Retes Stack.
I recommend buying a good quality ratcheting PVC tubing cutter,
RIDGID, or REED are great brands to work with. I would cut the pieces of CPVC into 1/4"-1/2" pieces, and secure them to pieces of stone with silicone. I would then add two to four more layers.
I would use different lenghts of CPVC in each layer as well. This
will create layers that aren't perfectly flat, so the geckos could wedge themselves into as tight a spot as they felt comfortable. Pure clear silicone is fine as long as you give it time to off gas. I wouldn't introduce the animal for at least 72 hours, and make sure it dries in a well ventilated area. Glass aquariums use silicone to seel the joints and I've kept animals in them for years with no ill effect. Give me a call if you have more questions.
-Phil
-----
Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

JKruse Jan 09, 2009 09:56 PM

Fo shizzle -- Imma call ya anyways . . .
-----
Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

markg Jan 10, 2009 02:47 AM

Aquarium silicon sealant and GE Silicon I do not have any additives that kill mold - that is why you shoudn't use just any silicone in a fish tank. So, the safest silicone is the one for aquariums. It is sold at places that sell aquariums and also at DIY centers usually.

You only need 24 hrs of cure time with aquarium silicone, then just rinse with cool water and it is 100% safe.

Another excellent adhesive for rocks is epoxy putty, also sold at DIY stores. You can make spacers with it and stick the rocks together. Pieces of 1/2" PVC pipe (cut like you would a cigar tip to make little rings) work great as spacers as mentioned by another.
-----
Mark

JKruse Jan 10, 2009 09:32 PM

Excellent. Thanks a bunch Mark.
-----
Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

snake_bit Jan 10, 2009 10:00 PM

Just make sure you use the 100% silicone not the cheaper cauking.Silicone is ok but I like a more natural looking susu
-----
"Wake me when its April"
Doug L

Jeff Schofield Jan 10, 2009 11:23 PM

Jerry, are you using slate for thermo gradients, objects of interest to the snake, or for esoteric decoration? If we are talking about changing the setup I would think there may be something equally as interesting to the snake yet safer and easier to clean than slate. Example-washable ceramic dishes. A CB snake doesnt know a dish from slate right? Because you know the first thing its going to do is poop all over it....

viborero Jan 11, 2009 05:25 PM

-----
Diego

SWCHR

JKruse Jan 12, 2009 08:57 AM

Good morning fine sir. Good to be back after a long weekend. The slate was one of the first materials that came to mind. It's aesthetically appealing to the keeper, and is thin enough to use in the 6-inch-high tubs to make for several "levels". But I have yet to walk around and let my imagination take control, such as in Home Depot, garden centers, etc....
-----
Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Jeff Schofield Jan 12, 2009 11:21 PM

Its easier to clean, cheaper, and stackable in a tub. I have found milks many times in piles of old tile, but I dont think you want to re-create the DUMP look....then again, why not?? Name the snake Fred Sanford.....

JKruse Jan 12, 2009 11:27 PM

Ehhh, what's up Doc?

We were talking more specifically about zonata and pyros given their nature of cramped living quarters, but could pose tru fro any snake. I'm open to any materials actually, and thought the slate rock would be functional and aesthetically nice. But it's more about the function it serves all in all.

"Here I come...Elizabeth!!!!! It's the big one!!".......LOL....
-----
Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Jeff Schofield Jan 12, 2009 11:46 PM

Given the choice(instinctual) most kings and milks prefer tight quarters for a feeling of security. I think this is another thing we change in captivity....we do this because simply WE WANT TO SEE THEM. To offer them hides(cb anyways)may be "unlearning" these successes no? I know I prefer offspring that are acclimated to humans, handling etc....Maybe we should ask the snake whisperer,LMAO!

JKruse Jan 13, 2009 12:50 AM

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!! Hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! It only hurts when I laugh........
-----
Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Boneyard Jan 09, 2009 01:05 PM

I am interested and want to ask what has been tried and what were the results?

Site Tools