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please help: necrosis, coccidia..?(long)

riiotgrrl Jan 11, 2009 10:33 AM

My 8 year old beardie has been having some problems for some time now. About a month ago, we had a power outage. Being from the northeast, it got Incredibly cold in my reptile room and unfortunately, my husband and i both had to work all day. The power was off for 14 hours....luckily we got it back that night, when most of the state was out for days.
Anyway, my reptile room dropped down to around 50. While most of my herps did well, and the incubator suffered no losses, My rescued Whites tree frog and my elderly beardie were hit pretty bad.
Indie had had a small mass on her rear leg that i assumed was a tumor, although it had been seemingly going away. Due to the cold and stress of the outage, though, it doubled in size. Once i realized it was an abscess (i have worked with rehabing reptiles for years, and am a bit skilled in rudementary vet care) i decided to lance and drain it. The infection was bad, but indie did not struggle, and most of the pus came out all at once. I cleaned the wound with a 50/50 mix of h2o2 and water, put a bit of neosporin on the incisions and bandaged her leg up, so the incisions would stay open. I repeated this process for 4 days. After the seeping had stopped, i let the wound stay open and dry. Then, though, it seemed to become inflamed and the infection came back a bit (no antibiotics...). Now, don't get mad here. Understand that i saved her life as a baby...she is a double amputee and she is missing her tail. I have had an amazing 8 years with her, but i have no car and the nearest decent herp vet is in the next state. Otherwise, she would have gone already....i digress...

So, when the infection came back, i got some chlorohexadine from a friend. I diluted that and flushed out the wounds again. It's 3 days later, and her incisions are necrotic. I was cleaning the area last night and the skin peeled back to the muscle. I am at a major loss right now. I cannot get baytril without a RX. I found a 'reptile food' with 2 types of antibacterial/antibiotic in it and am having it shipped 2 day air.
Here is the other hitch: She is actually eating better than she was when she had the abscess. The infection is gone....but the necrosis is probably way worse....I dont know what to do now. I will keep her hydrated and as long as she is eating i will not worry too much. (thats a lie).
She is bright eyed now and much more aware than before. I have re-covered her wounds with a sterile gauze bandage and neosporin so her muscle won't dry out...i will purchase some saline solution and pedialyte (although she drinks well, i think maybe it wil help her heal better...)
ANY suggestions will help. Please don't tear me down about this. I feel horrible, but i have brought so many animals back to life that should have died...what do you do when a vet isnt an option?

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"Brains for dinner, brains for lunch. Brains for breakfast, brains for brunch. Brains for every single meal; why can't we have some GUTS?"-Misfits

1.0 ball python- Azazel
0.1 creamsicle corn- Pandora
0.1 motley ghost stripe corn- Raven
0.4 leos- Boji, Sanjae, fae and Kodama
0.1 beardie- Indie
1.1 crested gecko- Jubeh and Inari
0.1 leucistic texas ratsnake-Ojo
1.0 whites tree frog- Sifaka
0.1 Transe pecos ratsnake- Cleo
0.1 Senegal chameleon- Ambaji
1.0 Ruthven's X Thaeri king- Kemushi
0.1 pacific parrolet- Mishka
1.1 cats- Cairo and Oberon
0.0.4 crab people
1.0 Husband (hes my favorite, but i dont let the 'kids' know that. )

Replies (6)

Kelly_Haller Jan 11, 2009 01:59 PM

I understand not having a reptile vet nearby, but you could try to go to a local vet and see if they could contact a good reptile vet for consultation. I believe Ian could give you some information on contacting reptile vets through a network and you could pass this info on to your local vet. It sounds like this case needs some good systemic antibiotics to resolve the issue, and this would be the only way to acquire them. The chlorhexidine is good for rinsing and debriding, and the neosporin could control surface tissue infections, but it sounds like systemics will be needed as well. I would also suggest not using H2O2 as it has been shown to actually slow the healing process. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Kelly

riiotgrrl Jan 11, 2009 02:30 PM

Thanks kelly,
The 'food' that i ordered has trimethoprim and sodium sulfadiazine in it....i researched both and they seem to treat systemic infections. I should have it by wednesday....thanks for the advice. I will contact my cat vet soon and see if they will accept consult. I know what she needs, i just need their help if this product doesnt work. much thanks, i will let you know, jen
-----
"Brains for dinner, brains for lunch. Brains for breakfast, brains for brunch. Brains for every single meal; why can't we have some GUTS?"-Misfits

1.0 ball python- Azazel
0.1 creamsicle corn- Pandora
0.1 motley ghost stripe corn- Raven
0.0.1 Yellow phase ATB- Devilin Hisseyes
0.4 leos- Boji, Sanjae, fae and Kodama
0.1 beardie- Indie
1.1 crested gecko- Jubeh and Inari
0.1 leucistic texas ratsnake-Ojo
1.0 whites tree frog- Sifaka
0.1 Transpecos ratsnake- Cleo
0.1 Senegal chameleon- Ambaji
1.0 Ruthven's X Thaeri king- Kemushi
0.1 pacific parrolet- Mishka
1.1 cats- Cairo and Oberon
1.0 crown tail betta- Lazarus
1.0 Husband (hes my favorite, but i dont let the 'kids' know that. )

joeysgreen Jan 11, 2009 04:50 PM

Unfortunately, the food that you've ordered likely won't have enough medical ingredients in it, as it would thus be a prescription item as well. Although the treatment you've carried out is rather "mash-like", it seems to be working and you've followed good logic.
Surf the arav website for vets, "just in case", or for vets that your cat vet could contact for help. www.arav.com
Also, if your cat vet has VIN www.vin.com, (IMO all good vets should) then they are already part of a greater network of veterinary specialists that can help them through difficult cases. This case being difficult to them only because they are not used to reptile clientele. In the future, and if your cat vet is up to it, I would consider purchasing the veterinary text by Mader, Reptile Medicine and Surgery. This is a tool that they could use as well, to have on hand to perscribe proper dosages, and review common problems and procedures ect. It'll also be a good read for you, but please don't use it to overstep your bounds in trying to help your reptile friends.
As a rehabber, you'll have to find away around your vet/distance problem. I hope these suggestions help you with that.

Now as to the problem itself:
Yes, systemic antibiotics are likely paramount.
The dragon is likely eating more because the abscess was probably a lot more painfull prior to you releaving the pressure.
For the necrosis, these guys are very resilient if you give them what they need. This guy needs to be quarantined in a prestine enclosure that meets all his husbandry needs to perfection. This part I"m sure you already know. Add in the antibiotics and hydrotherapy and I"m sure he'll turn around in no time.
Hydrotherapy: put the wound under running tap water that is luke warm for 10 minutes. Repeat this 3-4 times a day. Feel free to lightly rub off any loose dead tissue with your finger. Don't pull anything off; let the water do the work. Dry, and then apply your ointment and bandage.

I hope this helps, good luck

Ian

ps, the title has coccidia in it, did I miss something?

riiotgrrl Jan 12, 2009 10:28 AM

Thank you so much!! That was a huge help. The coccidia in the title i totally forgot to mention. She was showing a bit of blood in her stool, so i am assuming that it is coccidia presenting itself...as it does when beardeds become stressed or sick. The mash i have ordered will aid in relieving that issue as well, or so it says.

Last night i had her out, the wounds look better...there seems to be some healing where the necrotic tissue was removed (thankfully) and she ate 2 dozen crickets.

I will keep you updated. She will beat this! I'll be damned if i lose my bearded...lol she's a fighter.
Thanks so much for the information, it means alot to me!
jen

-----
"Brains for dinner, brains for lunch. Brains for breakfast, brains for brunch. Brains for every single meal; why can't we have some GUTS?"-Misfits

1.0 ball python- Azazel
0.1 creamsicle corn- Pandora
0.1 motley ghost stripe corn- Raven
0.0.1 Yellow phase ATB- Devilin Hisseyes
0.4 leos- Boji, Sanjae, fae and Kodama
0.1 beardie- Indie
1.1 crested gecko- Jubeh and Inari
0.1 leucistic texas ratsnake-Ojo
1.0 whites tree frog- Sifaka
0.1 Transpecos ratsnake- Cleo
0.1 Senegal chameleon- Ambaji
1.0 Ruthven's X Thaeri king- Kemushi
0.1 pacific parrolet- Mishka
1.1 cats- Cairo and Oberon
1.0 crown tail betta- Lazarus
1.0 Husband (hes my favorite, but i dont let the 'kids' know that. )

island_doc Jan 14, 2009 09:24 PM

It sounds like all you are dealing with now is a wound. Any vet should be able to help you since wound in a dog, cat, horse, and reptile aren't much different. You just have to follow basic principles of wound management. Your local vet should be able to culture the wound (which I would highly recommend), and help with wound management until the wound closes by itself or is healthy enough to suture closed. In the future I would not (and do not) use peroxide or chlorhexidine to flush wounds. Unless you use specific concentrations you can actually be damaging tissues.
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Michael McFadden, M.S., D.V.M.

Kelly_Haller Jan 15, 2009 12:02 AM

I did fail to elaborate on the required concentration. The diacetate form is usually the best choice, but must be diluted to a 0.05% solution. It is also best to use chloride free water, distilled or preferably sterile, as chlorides will form a precipitate and lower the effectiveness. Thanks,

Kelly

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