Reptile & Amphibian Forums

After reading the post by Jerry about building a stack system I gave it a go myself. I used left over ceramic tiles from a floor I did and affixed them with thinset mortar. I raised the stack one inch off the floor with cut pvc pipe at each corner. This way the snake still has full use of the tub floor. Amazing the difference if temp gradients within the tub now. With a room ambient temp of 64-65 I now have 69-70 at the cool side and 82 on the hot. These are floor readings. The top shelf of the stack is at 90! So now I have 69-70 cool and 90 hot. I am going to drill more holes in the tub on the cool side to see if I can get that at around 67 or so. After letting the stack dry for a day and a half I placed it into a female pyros tub that has not eaten for three weeks. She took to the stack immediately and wedged herself into a shelf. I waited a while and then placed a large pink in with her. She took it within a minute. I will be building these for ALL my mountain king enclosures. Thanks Jerry.

Joe..could you post pics?..
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Richard Evans

no not THAT one

Sure. I have to go take some. Mind you this is my first one and an experiment so it "sure ain't purty".

purty don't count, results do. When you get them all built and installed, collate that data for the people to see the possibilities. and this is just one experiment, good one!
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Todd Hughes

I wish I could take the credit for it, but I cannot. I do believe that these things are going to work big time.

Here you go buddy. Remember, the next ones will look MUCH better.

Looking good Joe! That gives me another idea!
Dishwasher safe Retes stacks! LOL!!!
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

WHAT A FREAKIN' GREAT IDEA !! when I saw Joe's pics,I thought, "how hard would it be to clean them."..You're not just another pretty face Phil..you're a genius!! Now the hard part..running it by the wife. any suggestions?
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Richard Evans

no not THAT one

Yeah, get rid of the wife, and install two commercial dishwashers! LOL!!! JK!
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

Joe , your using bottom heat at about 82 degrees, and your getting 90 degrees up on the top level of your stack, so the heat is rising up to heat the top level to about 90 degrees? Is that correct?
Thanks, Bob
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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

That is correct Bob. I will make the next ones a little cleaner of course and as far as being dishwasher safe ( for the others ) I am not sure about this one. It won't come apart though, I can tell you that much. I made another one tonight out of clay. The neighbor does pottery and will fire it for me in her kiln. This might be the way to go because I can throw this one in the DISHWASHER. ( for you guys wanting that ) Not sure my wife would go for it. I will take some photos when its done.

Hey Bob,
I use Animal Plastics Racks. Using an infrared thermometer,
which I highly recommend everyone get. I have noticed
that both the bottom shelf, with the heat tape running across the top of it, as well as the shelf above the tubs, i.e., the
lid of the tub, is heated by the tape on the shelf above.
I think one of the huge advantages of the stack systems is that you are taking advantage of the heat which is radiating from the
shelf above. You don't even have to build an elaborate
multi-layered stack to utilize this heat source. I have used a
single slab of cork bark. I notice that the top of the bark is actually warmer than the bottom, which is over the "hot" side of the tub. I have observed snakes exsposing the part of their body
with the food bolus "exposed" on the top of the bark, i.e., warmer side, while the rest of their body is under the bark.
Giving them a sense of security and less exposure, I'm sure.
Not quite a scientific observation, but it does seem to make
logical sense to me. I have also noticed that snakes, in captivity, usually "tame down". Yet, if given an evironment
that gives them the options that they are looking for, they resort back to a wild caught state. They are much more defensive,
far more eager to eat, and very active. I find it ironic that many newcomers to the hobby are actually looking for a "pet" snake, that acts completely lethargic. A tame snake is not necessarily a healthy snake folks!
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

Sounds great Joe but we need a photo of your handy work.
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"Wake me when its April"
Doug L

The photo is a couple of posts up Doug. The clay one I made I will photo in a day or two.

Joe I don't wanna boist ya bubble tough guy, but the stack idea was not originally mine. FR made some of these things eons ago(as I'm sure others did as well to one degree or another) and he made it part of a discussion in the recent past. I was intrigued myself and thus elaborated on it further. However the fruits of our discussions together has yielded some motivation and, obviously, some new beginnings as evidenced by your third-grade project....LMAO, just kiddin' buddy......it's a helluva start and one that can be modified in many many ways to better suit our captive gems. Bravo my friend.

SO, thank you for putting me on blast, but I'm too honest and humble to accept this award for originality. But since I'm at the podium, I'd like to thank God, and my sixth grade teacher Mrs. Applebum, and to all you fellas for without you this would not be possible..........LOL.

Good work brother.
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

OH, the comedy never ends. It is pretty crazy looking! Just was trying it to find out what temps I would get. I will warn you though, the clay one is not much better! I don't think the snakes look for the prettiest rocks though----or do they? I figured it had been done before bro but you were the first I had heard talk about it. How did I know you would die laughing at the site of that thing?? I would not have wanted it any other way. LOL

Hey homey,

I will build somethign when I get back from my trip on the 19th this month. In-between doing some field scouting for the upcoming spring I will put together something and try it with another specimen. What i did for the alterna takes up 2/3 of the tub. Thank heaven I work with small-sized snakes. But fun none-the-less. And I'm never laughing AT you, just WITH you...
But you know that already. Gotta get you and a couple other stooges up here to NY/NJ for some field time.
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Sounds good bro. Did you notice the legs on the "monster" I built? They still get to use the entire bottom of the tub. Obviously a taller tub would yield better results all the way around, but that would not fit into most racks.

I will be getting some new racks this year, of course not as nice as the ones RG showed us, hah!!! But I will have standard 3" Flexwatt in the rear set at about 80F -- as to how that will translate I don't know yet with a stacking system. Experimentation is afoot this year. And with potentially 12 breeding z females this year, it's going to be a busy lizard-filled year to boot. More to come on this from my end later in the month. Dog sledding first! Can't wait...
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Don't know if this will equate to zonata but I didn't have great success with temporalis until I decided to stop using lizards for feeding or scenting period!
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That is a a completely narcistocanibolizistic thing to say!

Hey bubba,

ever try newborn lizards? But I think temps would more than likely go for skinks or VERY small baby lizards. I have very good success with z's and lizard scenting actually, or if not scenting, then a swatch of skin on the ol' noggin. Would you like a photo example? lol....
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

.
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

.
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Jerry, Oooooohhhh Jerry,
You kill me! Okay, get over it!
Just you wait till Howie, Beaver, Joe and I get
you cornered with some hotwings, and that Barley, Malt, and Hops
beverage we're so fond of. Hopefully they'll be laughing and somebody besides us this time. LOL!! You forgot to thank your mother. Oye Vay!
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

I have tryed this sort of two tier idea in my tanks but I have used 5x 8 inch plastic food containers that my chinease food comes in.I cut holes in the tops for access and glue two one on the other .One concern here for me is that I am often in a hurry and sometimes I may drop something.I would hate to drop a heavy thing like that on my snake.I am sure your more carefull then me Joe.I think snakes like to have heavy stable objects to hide under though,This is what I see in the field where bigger plywood boards seem to work better then half sheets do.
This is the food container that I may use top and bottom.This one was used as a laybox with peatmoss.

Nice to see you guys sharing ideas
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"Wake me when its April"
Doug L

I had thought of that because it is heavy. The legs are very sturdy and the accident would have to be on my end. The next one I build out of tile will be slightly wider than the bottom of the tub so if that happens the tub will stop it from smashing anything. ( my tubs have a slight taper to them ) Your way sounds easy though. Post the pics if you make another.

There is no substitute for thermal mass! I've used ceramic tiles as hide covered before and they were very effective for absorbing, retaining and reradiating heat back into the cage. This is particularly the case when using overhead lighting as the heat source (which is my preference). I never liked the sudden temperature shift I saw when the lights come on and or go off. At one point I had some measurements but some tile or rocks under the heat source definitely served to buffer temperature swings. Tile has some advantages over natural rock in that its is availible in a lot of different and pleasing colors but mostly in that it is easily cleaned.

I still have a few in some of my racks but I just lay them on top of aspen where the bedding depth is approximately 1.5 time the girth of the snake. The snakes will generally get under then and make a hollow much like you would see under ac in the field. I got the idea from neonates constantly getting under water bowls.
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That is a a completely narcistocanibolizistic thing to say!

Yeah Tony, the fact that they hold and transfer heat well was one reason I chose to use tile. It will be ineresting to see how the clay one matches up. I will be using these mostly for my pryos and zonata that I have coming. Just trying to fine tune prior to the arrival of the critters. My clay one may inch me up to a "fifth grade" project! Ha Ha.

I tried using overturned clay flower pot trays once but did not get the same effect. Perhaps the material is not as dense. I don't know. They didn't clean as well either.
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That is a a completely narcistocanibolizistic thing to say!

Joe man, you've got it all wrong. Don't you read the caresheets? The formula is:

1. Tub of aspen
2. Tiny water dish

What is with all this crevice stuff, and heat mass, and choices?

Really, great job! Here's to making things better for these animals.
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Mark

LMAO!!