Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, today i found one of my females dead. She was diagnosed with worms a few weeks ago and she's been given a panacur -cure. After the first time she vomited a clear, watery fluid when i picked her up, and a few days later again.
She started to refuse food and became lethargic. After the second treatment 10 days later she did not vomit, but the fatpads on her head and her eyes were sunken and she looked dehydrated.
So i took her to the vet again and she was injected with a water-electrolyte-solution. The weekend passed and she did not improve, so i took another trip to the vet yesterday.
There she got another shot of water-electrolyte-solution and vitamines, some astronaute-food and another worm-cure because her stool (very little, very dark and very sticky) still contained worm-eggs. It could be that this were the last eggs since it was the first poop after the panacur, but the vet thought that cure did not work since she had gotten worse.
I now had to give her vitaminthe anti-worm which has to be given only once.
Unfortunately i found her dead today with a belly bloated like a balloon and her cloaca bulging out (not a prolapse)!!

Is this normal with worms or is is possible she had something else that caused her death and the bloating of her body. Strangly her eyes and fatfads on her head were looking normal again when i found her!

I am very confused right now, but i want to learn from it to avoid something like this in the future! Unfortunately i could not reach the vet today since i got home late.

She will be missed very much. She was my favourite female and i was planning to breed her later this year...

r.i.p. Kami

Sorry about your loss.

What was the dosage of Panacur you gave to her? What is her weight?

Hi BDlvr, thanks for your quick supply.

She was given 25 mg (fenbendazol) and 10 days later again. She weighted 450 grams. Strangely she didn't lose much weight at all.

reply that is, not supply..

How did you measure 25 mg? Panacur is a liquid and is generally administered with a syringe marked in ml. Are you sure you gave her 25 and not .25?

What worms was she being treated for?

Sorry for your loss
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Not sure what kind of worms. The worm-eggs were seen in 2 different ways: some stool right under the microscope and some stool deluted in a water-salt solution so the eggs will float on the surface (when present, coccidia will do also). With the last method i am not sure flagelates can be seen. i am going to contact the vet today to figure that out.

You can get it in a paste as well. The dosage seems right if it was measured correctly.

This panacur was a paste in a syringe-like tube with measuring-graduations. each graduation stands for 50 mg fenbendazol so i had to give her 1/2 of a unit. The vitaminthe (Virbac) was also a paste but measured in ml and contains niclosamide and oxibendazol. I used a small syringe to give her 25 ml.

I come up with a dosage of 10-15 mg/kg of Panacur. So a 450 g dragon should get a dose of 4.5 - 5.5 mg, way less than 25. I don't have time to check the other right now.

In general, if an animal (including humans) has a reaction to a drug you should stop using that drug and reevaluate. I don't know what caused your dragons death but from your description it seems there is some relationship to the medicine. I have used Panacur (liquid) many times with no significant negative reaction. My Iguana wanted to bite me because he didn't like the taste of it. lol.

The leaflet of the panacur says:

"The daily dose for Panacur® C is 50 mg/kg (22.7 mg/lb) of body weight."

Dividing that in half makes 25 mg for a 500 gram dragon. (actually she would have to get 22.5 mg since she weighted 450 grams, but that's a minor difference)

Anyway, going back to the vet today and she'll probably gets an autopsy.

yeah they really hate the taste of it

Anyway, i used the same dosage i gave to other dragons wich all responded very well. That is why i am so confused about it.

i meant 0.25 ml vitaminthe!! (which is 3.75 mg oxybendazol and 30 mg niclosamide)

0.25 ml vitaminthe is 7.5 mg oxybendazol and 60 mg niclosamide:

"General dosage: 1 ml per 2 kg body weight (equivalent to 15 mg oxybendazol and 120 mg niclosamide per kg body weight)."

http://www.podarcis.nl/info/ziektenuk.php3

Here's a site that lists the dosage. They recommend 40 (my error) when you are dosing 10-14 days apart. That would be 18 mg for your 450 gram dragon. Is the difference between 18 and 25 enough to cause a problem? I don't know. I'm just very suspect by your description. Panacur is a widely used and safe medication. I've never heard of anyone having a problem with it before. But, who knows every animal is different.

Thanks for the link BDlvr! And it is in also dutch (i'm dutch as well ) I added it to my favourites!

Strangely they recommend another dosage than suggested in the leaflet that comes with the panacur...

As soon as i know more i'll keep you informed!

If you have a copy or can get one, the Klingenberg book understanding parasites breaks down dosages. 50mg/kg is what is recommended for reptiles, and this is also per day for 5 days.

Thanks Chris.
As a matter of fact, i just ordered a copy 2 hours ago. Wish i found it sooner though. I've been looking for books about it in dutch, but couldn't find anything. In-depht books about reptile-illnesses and herptology in general are rare in the Netherlands. Most of them are just covering the very basics.

I have that book, but never thought to check it. I've never used panacur in any other form than liquid, so I have no personal experience with any type of reaction to that dose. It just seems so odd that the trouble began after the dragon was medicated.

It may have nothing to do with the dosage. Though it could simply be because its hard to remember details a vet says several days after the fact, but there seemed confusion as to what sort of parasite the dragon was infected with.

The bloating in the dead dragon could simply be because of normal decay (if it died in the night it may have sat in a warm tank for hours before being discovered in the morning, thus allowing sufficient time for gases to build up in the body, causing it to bloat). Also the fat pads on the head won't come back over night. Severe dehydration can cause them to decrease fast and come back fast, as the dragon rehydrates...but I think in this case, it may be more due to bloating, unless the fat pads over several days of regular eating.

A necropsy will be beneficial to see what sort of problem is at the root of your dragon's death..if it was due to toxicity from overdose of panacur and/or the other medications prescribed, or other reason. The flare up of parasites may in fact be a symptom of another problem, not the sole cause of your dragon's problem.

What were the problems you had with your dragon before she was diagnosed with worms? Or did you just bring her in for a regular checkup and fecal test?
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PHLdyPayne

So i went back to the vet again yesterday. As PHLdyPayne said, the bloating of her body was caused by decay. The bloating yesterday was much worse then when i found her: eyes and vent bulging out and a body almost 2 times as big as she used to be. Because she was dead for over a day, and the fact it would took another day to get her to the lab, the build-up of bacteria would make it impossible to do a correct necropsy since her death was parasite-related.

I still have to bring in the stools of my other 2 females as soon as possible, but i had a fresh sample of my male yesterday. It tested negative on coccidia, flagellates or other parasites. Just a few worm eggs were found, but because it was only his second stool after the panacur it were almost for sure the last to come out. I will get another test in a week or 2.

hi
hmm sad to hear ,i asume its one of mine females ??
why not use parazap ?
can you not call me ?
r mail me ?
good luck dude .
byeeeeeeeeee
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