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Thermoregulating, gila stype.

FR Jan 15, 2009 09:15 PM

I have a zillion of these photos. I will include a few methods used to thermoregulate.

Of course, these will sit out and heat up. But they will also regional heat, that is, heat a meaningful part, like eggs, or once one is heated up, only leave a small part out to regulate an achieved temp.

The first two are gilas heating their eggs, the first just the body where the eggs are is exposed. The second female is body basking.

The next two, are gilas with their nose in the sun.

The next is a foot out. I guess there is some suggestion why the feet and nose are black. But who knows.

The next post will be snakes regional basking. I am old and tired now, I must rest. Cheers

Replies (5)

antelope Jan 15, 2009 10:29 PM

Rest Frank, we will never get tired of the lessons! I hope you put these records in a book someday soon, for us all to share in the knowledge. Thanks,
Todd Hughes
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Todd Hughes

FR Jan 16, 2009 11:15 AM

First, I choose to explain reptile thermoregulation using WILD NATURAL reptiles instead of captive examples in a box.

The reason should be clear. The reptiles in the box are and were these wild reptiles FIRST. So understanding how and what they do INSTINCTUALLY(for JEFF S.) Is far more accurate and meaningful then what we do in artificial conditions. We should duplicate what they instinctually do, not a facsimilly of a facsimilly.

The captive approaches I have used do come from natural animals, and modified to be used with captive animals.

Mind you, I try not to modify the animal, just the materials.

The above animals are not touched or handled. If you look at the second basking gravid female, you can see I took the shot thru the cover of bushes. As these animals will run upon sight or sound. Yes, they hear me coming if I am not careful. Remember, they are lizards.

The importance of understanding thermoregulation is to not take a temperature. But a series of temps and relate them to a series of movements or behaviors.

For instance, what is the base temp(cool) when a animal chooses to move to heat. Then what is its body temp when the animal moves to shade or cooler temps. Then relate them to what the animal is doing. Examples, is it gravid, contain a food bolus, injured, etc. In other words, they won't use a temp you want them to use, unless they have a need to use it.

For instance, coming out, in the open, is an extreme behavior only used when the mass temps are so cool, it cannot achieve needed temps in cover. This type of behavior is more common with slow moving reptiles. Like colubrids and in this case gilas. Fast moving reptiles can rely of speed to escape predators, so they will come out more and rely on that advantage. Or water species will rely on diving in water to escape predators, ETC.

So what we have here is free ranging individuals that move to different temps to achieve various tasks without intrusion.

A huge difference in understanding is time. In captivity, folks tend to use Certain temps for long periods of time. Or expect them to sit at a certain temp for long periods of time. Specially hot areas(whatever that means)

What we see with animals of free choice is, they maintain a base temp of cool and move to heat for VERY SHORT periods of time. That is, they use heat spikes to accomplish tasks. Also consider, their use different approaches for different parts of the colony. For instance, young growing animals use a higher base temp then reproductive individuals.

Also understand there are two major groups, residents(successfully reproductive) and transients. These two groups use a very different temps and range.

Because WE, mostly are interested in breeding them in captivity, we should utilize the resident behaviors over transient. Unfortunately, science has mostly taken data on transients. The reason is, they are far easier to find, they are out and moving over a FAR greater period of time. Therefore easy to find

Also close interaction, tagging, radios, moving, handling, changes residents into transients. Folks, thats behavior.

For instance the second basking gravid female has been in this exact same spot for 30 yrs. Many of the animals on my site, I watched grow up. I also have sites where we intrude on the animals, on those sites, I cannot boast of this.

Why I am saying this is, BEHAVIOR, including basking or thermoregulation is influenced by many things, Including conditions, intrusions, and need.

I think that and more needs to be considered when testing captive progress.

As mentioned, INSTINTS, are very important. Each species has certain preferences, these include, mass temps/humid, feel, security and the ability to secure a range of the above. That is, they recognize certain parts of the habitat that has allowed for continued success. For instance, the above individuals are in very similar micro nitches. But unfortunately, its only a small part of the population that chooses this. As most are ground dwellers and actually utilize rodent burrows. The above is more or less exceptional. The above habitats are most likely less then 5% of their habitat.

I use the above areas for a very real reason, I can monitor them over a far longer period. In burrows, once they back away from the entrance, they are gone for view. In the above situations, I can check on them until the temps are so extreme, they go down deep.

In otherwords, I had to find something I could study, not study whatever I find. I also had to find successful reproductive colonies(residents) not any old individual(transients) Again percentages. Our estimation is, most populations are 20% resident and 80% transient. Of course that changes with conditions, the better the conditions, the higher the resident population. The poorer the conditions, the higher the transient population is.

I again mention the above, as if your going to copy something, it surely should be the successful part of the colony. For instance, transients are individuals seaching and attempting to become residents. Most become food for other animals.

Again, I dwell on these things because whats important is to understand what they are doing and why, then to duplicate that in captivity becomes VERY very easy.

In my case, I test things in captivty until they show the results of these free ranging reptiles. Which gives me an advantage. I have the results part of the equation, and only have to find the formula that allows that result(basic algebra)

I feel that most in captivity make up the result(human prejudice). Most do not have a base goal that they are trying to obtain. In my case, I can keep changing conditions until I see the above. it makes it easy.

You cannot lie about the above, its the animals actually being the animals. More to follow.

Dobry Jan 17, 2009 02:24 AM

I think, a really good post. The original pics and the commentary make me laugh not just because its really funny, but because its so obviously intuitive and is what it is. I don't know it just cracked me up when I read it. Do ya think? Countercurrent exchange? A possibility? Documented in many other organisms...
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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

billcobb Jan 17, 2009 10:42 AM

FR,

Thank you for the pictures and narratives. This is good stuff. I am looking forward to more, hopefully with more pics of kingsnakes.

Bill Cobb

BobS Jan 18, 2009 03:30 PM

nm
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Sometimes I think the kid with two pet snakes has something that those of us with 50 to 200 lost a long time ago.

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