Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A while ago when I was first getting into boas, I bought a salmon which was sold to me as a female. At that time I didn't even think to double check the sex (and wouldn't have known how).

A couple years go by and I noticed this 'girl' has a bulge past her vent and some rather prominant pointy spurs. hmm, perhaps my 'she' is a 'he'. Still not sure but it's not looking like a female. (I had a pick showing this but can't seem to find it)

A couple more years go by. I realize I need to know if this snake is a male or female as I'd like to breed 'it'. I am now assuming it's a male based on tail spurs and bulge but then I see 'it' doing what appears to be a pre-ov twist about a week ago. Ok, let's get to the bottom of this once and for all! Break out the probes.

Last night as my guy held the front half, I take the tail in my left hand to probe, this snake is not happy and is trying to twist away with all it's force. Finally get the probe started and it goes in 2-3 subcaudal scales on the left side of the vent. I cannot get the probe in on the right side. The snake is just flexing it's muscles and twisting like crazy. So it would appear 'she' really is a she based on the probe.

MY QUESTION (did you read this far? wow!) - Should I trust the results I got from probing? Is it possible the snake was contracting the muscles so tight that it prevented the probe from going into the hemipenis? I guess I could just put the male in with 'her' and see what happens.

What do you think?
-April

old pic of the snake in question, product of a big dark normal female and a very nice F1 salmon male

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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

be difficult as you described. A smaller probe might give different results or as you mentioned IF she is mature enough to and is putting off the seductive hormones a male will let you know real quick. Hope you are able to determine for sure so you don't grow a male too large or keep a female too small for you future intentions. Good luck with him/her.
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Ty Hege
Rat Race Solutions
www.ratracesolutions.com

nice looking boa!!!

I'd not trust 100% your probing.

I'd use all your visual clues and go from there. If it looks like a male from outer appearances, I'd think it to be a male and try putting it with a female.

Problem with sexing is it's positive confirmation on males and negetaive on females. Or, if you find the concealed boy parts it's a boy, if you don't then it must be a female. Much easier to mis-sex a male as a female than the other way around.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

The way you described the probing "event" I would say the it was not an accurate way of ensuring this animals sex.

Certain snakes easily can flex and prevent the probe from passing to the depth of a male.

Also hemipenal castings/sperm plugs can block a probe as well.

But boas usually leave these in their water bowls, I have seen them in blood pythons where they where hard like a snot and if you pulled it out, you get the idea....YUK lol

As long as the snakes are healthy you could make introductions and watch for courtship activity.

I was given a "female" coastal carpet python on a breeding loan to breed to my male. (zoo sexed no less) I knew it was not a female within minutes of introduction because of the wrestling match type of behavior. Although I have not heard of male boa competing I am sure there are prominent behaviors you could note to discern sex of the animal.

Dave from rainbows r us has a pretty reliable palpation method he uses as well. But this may work on babies only, not really certain.

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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Yeah, problem with palpation is it really works best on smaller snakes.

April, if you're coming by Saturday, you're welcome to bring "it" along and I can look at "it" in person. Of course it would only be my opinion and no, I don't/won't probe!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>Yeah, problem with palpation is it really works best on smaller snakes.
>>
>>
>>April, if you're coming by Saturday, you're welcome to bring "it" along and I can look at "it" in person. Of course it would only be my opinion and no, I don't/won't probe!!
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Thank you to all the responses, confirming what I believe as well that my probing did not result in an answer one way or the other.

Can you beleive in 8 years of having male boas, I have never, not once, seen a sperm plug? I have proven males and my hog isle male going crazy right now trying to get at the females, even a male in with the female, and never seen a plug. Weird! As long they do the deed when I put them together I guess I shouldn't complain.

Hey Dave, you know, I may just bring this 'mystery' boa with me for you to take a look at. I'm pretty sure it's a male but hate not knowing for sure.

My other option is putting him/her in with a female and another male and see what happens.

Thanks again everyone!
-April

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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

I've been testing the rub test on larger males and have accurately felt the "bb" on males over 5 1/2' now. I've actually found with large males it is far easier, as I gently grip the tail above the vent and put slight pressure while sliding toward the tip. I wrap my index finger underneath the tail with the thumb on the top of the tail.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
Boas make the world go round.

When I first looked at the older picture you have of this Boa I immediately said to myself looks more like a male.
I see the very last picture you posted and can't see enough tail to make any guess.
The last picture certainly looks like thicker tail anatomy.
Which you normally see in fems,not enough visible tail to make any guess here though.
I wish you had a current picture with the tail fully visible.
It would be fun to make an educated guess determination of what sex this Boa is,LOL
. . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Hey Lar!
>>The last picture certainly looks like thicker tail anatomy. Which you normally see in fems,not enough visible tail to make any guess here though.

I think s/he just had to do a BM which made the tail look big.

Here's the older pics I was looking for, still can't really tell by pics alone, I understand that, and these aren't all that great. But there is deff. a bulge right past the vent and the size would seem correct for a male. S/he's got a short tail length but the bulge and spurs say male... (too bad can't see the spurs in the pics)

I'll have Dave (Rainbows) take a look at him/her in person and go from there. Overall, I think it's a boy. Not what I wanted but will still work.

thanks!
April
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

Thought a male was a female. Was cleaning the cage one day and looked real close and said to myself boy for a 4' male, this guy has no spurs at all. I have popped bigger snakes before so I popped him, nothing. To make sure, I ordered a new set of probes, (lent mine out and didnt get them back) and probed him. Sure enough it was a she. Im not too upset at all though as she is gorgeous and the breeder is really making up for it. By giving me a good deal on a he. (At least it better be a he this time...LOL)

post a close up photo of the spurs? A boa that size can easily be sexed by spur morphology.

Kelly

>>post a close up photo of the spurs?

Hi Kelly,
I'm going to take him/her to Dave at Rainbows R US and hopefully we can determine, if not I'll take some macro shots of the spurs to post.
Thanks!
-April
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

April,

Based on only the pictures you posted I would say that is a female. I can lend you my set of probes if you wish, I may even be able to drop them off at Dave's.

-Angel