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Help please!

Evie Jan 20, 2009 06:42 PM

Hello. I have a 3 year old male bearded dragon. He has never eaten his veggies so I used to feed him crickets and mealworms. He got sick and is now doing better. However, I am still having to force feed him Critical Care for Herbivores. He wants nothing to do with his vegetables - and still won't eat crickets. He just started eating mealworms about 5-6 days ago, but hasn't gone poop since. I took him to the vet today (who referred me to this website) and he says that "Beardie" is healthy. He didn't seem too concerned about him not pooping. So I guess what I am asking is if anyone has any tips on how to get my lizard to eat his veggies or crickets. I don't want to have to keep force feeding him (I've done it for 8 months now), and also don't think mealworms are the best for him. Also, how hot do I keep his tank? I've been told anywhere from 80-100 degrees - but what is the optimal temperature? Any help with these topics would be very much appreciated. Thank you!

Evie

Replies (6)

BDlvr Jan 21, 2009 02:09 AM

He should have a basking spot temp. (surface temp.) of 105-110 with a hot side ambient (air temp) of 85-90 and a cool side ambient of 70-80.

How long is he and how much does he weigh? You said he was sick. What was wrong with him? What made you decide to start assist feeding?

Mealworms are a bad choice and an impaction risk. Try superworms, silkworms, phoenix worms or hornworms.

A picture of the dragon and his setup would be very helpful. See if you can answer all these questions.

What is your dragon's name or your call name?
How old is he?
How long have you had him?
Did he come from a breeder or pet store?
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?
How long is he (snout to tail)?
What size cage is he in?
What substrate is he on?
Is he housed alone?
Is he active, alert, eyes bright?
Is he pooping?
What is his basking temperature?
What is it being measured with (digital, stick-on, etc)?
Are you using any form of electronic heating device other than overhead lighting?
What brand, model, and size is his UVB light?
How old is the UVB light?
How close to him is the UVB light?
How long are the lights on daily (day/night cycle)?
Are the lights on a timer?
What greens are you offering?
What veggies are you offering?
Are you misting? How often?
Is the dragon getting baths? How often?
What insects are the dragons eating?
What size?
How often and how many?
What are the insects being fed?
What calcium supplement is being used?
How often?
What vitamin supplement is being used?
How often?
What country (and/or state) are you in?
Is there any additional information that might be of use?

tbone21 Jan 21, 2009 10:16 AM

There are definately better worms out there than meal and you definately should raise the temp just like it was said in post above. You can be helped more if you give more info. Also remember there is a difference between air temp and basking temp. Easiest thing to do would be to get a cheap temp gun for like $20 from proexotics.
-----
Tom
1.2.0 Leopard Gecko (dot, spot, casper)
0.0.1 California King Snake (booboo)
0.1.0 Sulcata Tortoise (tank)
0.0.2 Russian Tortoise (tito and lulu)
0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders (bernie and ernie)
0.0.3 Painted Turtles (larry, curly and moe)
0.0.1 Western Soft shell (Squirt)
2.2.0 Bearded Dragon (marshmellow,Bubba,Sparkles,Alfredo )
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor (beef)
1.0.0 Peachfront Conure (kermit)
0.1.0 Love Bird ( KIKI )
1.1.0 Dog (layla and Rosco)
2.1.0 Crazy Cats (babe, sabastian, tinkerbell)
0.1.0 Lion Head Rabbit (daisy)
0.1.2 Ferret (jordan RIP, Cosmo and Izzy)
0.2.0 Guinea Pigs (lilly and petunia)
0.0.1 White Tree Frog (dumpy jr.)
0.0.2 Fire Belly Newts (spork and blaze)
0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (ferdinan)
0.0.1 Red Spotted Newt ( red)
0.0.2 Bull Frogs (goliath and tubby)
0.0.1 Spectacled caiman (wilbert)
0.0.3 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anole
0.0.1 Giant Millipede
Lots Of Fish

Evie Jan 21, 2009 07:35 PM

Thank you Bdlvr. Here are the answers to the questions you asked.
"Beardie" was one pound two ounces at the vet yesterday (but he hadn't pooped in 5 days). He is 21 inches long. He is approximately 3 1/2 years old. Yes, I had a fecal done when he got sick last May, and again yesterday. He had parasites last May, but didn't have them yesterday. I purchased him from a privately owned pet store a little about 3 years and 5 months ago. He lives in a 45 gallon creature tank with a 150 watt (I think) ceramic heater and a 150 watt basking light. I use A 15 watt Zoo Med (Reptisun) 10.0 UVB light, which I replace every 6 months (just replaced it again yesterday). All of the heaters/lights are sitting on a wire top about 14 inches away from him. I use crushed walnut substrate. He is housed alone. He is not very active - prefers to sleep under his log. When I was only force feeding him he pooped every day or two. The vet is the one who had me start force feeding him when he got sick with parasites last May. I don't like feeding him the mealworms because they do constipate him (He went 6 days without pooping). His basking temp is pretty hot. The surface was at 112 degrees when I checked it a minute ago(I have no way of elevating the basking lamp. I use a digital thermometer. The ambient temp on the hot side of his tank is 88-93 degrees. The ambient temp on the cool side of the tank is 82-85 degrees. His lights are on for 13-14 hours and off for 10-11 hours. At night I replace the basking lamp with another ceramic heater to keep him warm. No, my lights are not on timers. The only greens I have tried him on recently are Romaine lettuce and spinach. He used to eat frozen peas that I thawed out for him. I haven't tried any other veggies because he just started eating ANYTHING on his own again last week (and that was only mealworms). He has not touched the greens I gave him earlier today, and wouldn't eat crickets yesterday when I tried to feed him them. No, I don't mist him. How often should I be? Thank you for your suggestions about other live food to feed him. Where can I purchase them? Thank you very much for your help. I really appreciate it! How do I attach photos of Beardie to messages on here?

tbone21 Jan 22, 2009 03:28 PM

Well from the sounds of it there are somethings wrong and somethings right. Temps sound good. Definatly get rid of the crushed walnut substrate. THat has high chance for impaction. At that size you can use washed play sand from like homedepot of toys r us. Or you can use reptile carpet or newspaper. I like sand becuase it looks nice and it clumps up so they are not stepping in their fecal. Also dont feed romain or spinach. Romain has no nutritional value and spinach can inhibit calcium if i am not mistaken. You want something easy get that bagged spring mix in the grocery store. Works great some lettuce but lots of good stuff. Hope this helps.
-----
Tom
1.2.0 Leopard Gecko (dot, spot, casper)
0.0.1 California King Snake (booboo)
0.1.0 Sulcata Tortoise (tank)
0.0.2 Russian Tortoise (tito and lulu)
0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders (bernie and ernie)
0.0.3 Painted Turtles (larry, curly and moe)
0.0.1 Western Soft shell (Squirt)
2.2.0 Bearded Dragon (marshmellow,Bubba,Sparkles,Alfredo )
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor (beef)
1.0.0 Peachfront Conure (kermit)
0.1.0 Love Bird ( KIKI )
1.1.0 Dog (layla and Rosco)
2.1.0 Crazy Cats (babe, sabastian, tinkerbell)
0.1.0 Lion Head Rabbit (daisy)
0.1.2 Ferret (jordan RIP, Cosmo and Izzy)
0.2.0 Guinea Pigs (lilly and petunia)
0.0.1 White Tree Frog (dumpy jr.)
0.0.2 Fire Belly Newts (spork and blaze)
0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (ferdinan)
0.0.1 Red Spotted Newt ( red)
0.0.2 Bull Frogs (goliath and tubby)
0.0.1 Spectacled caiman (wilbert)
0.0.3 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anole
0.0.1 Giant Millipede
Lots Of Fish

BDlvr Jan 22, 2009 04:30 PM

Temps. are OK and crushed walnut is a major no-no as the last poster stated. Change to washed, sifted children's play sand, non-stick shelf liner (Duck brand from Wal-mart is good), tile, reptile carpet, newspaper, or paper towels.

Greens wise. Spinach is bad as well as peas. Lettuce and spring mix don't have enough nutrients. My recommendation is Mustard Greens and dandelion. He's a good link with more info.

http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html

I would not heat the enclosure at all at night unless your house drops below 60. Reptiles need to cool and slow their metabolism at night.

I don't know what size a 45 gal. is but an adult should be housed in an enclosure that is 4' x 2' floor space so yours is likely too small. You really should post a picture.

Put the lights on timers. Consistent day/night is important. You didn't mention supplementation?

Overall, is see some positive changes could be made but no dramatic husbandry issues.

At 1 lb. 2 oz. you dragon is 545 grams. Not bad for his length. I like mine a little heftier but every dragon is different.

Force feeding is tube feeding (animal has no choice but to take food into his stomach hence "force". Assist feeding is when you put food in his mouth he chews and swallows on his own. This could be syringe or whole food (he could spit it out). My feeling is you are assist feeding.

I have been assist feeding a dragon here for over a year, his name is Brutus. Why, because he can't eat on his own and because of his handicaps will never be self sufficient. I manage his intake using a weight scale. If you control his intake then you have to have a plan to keep him from being hungry and also not let him get fat.

My recommendation is to buy a weight scale that weighs in at least one gram increments and then stop feeding him. Parasites should never have been a reason to start assist feeding. Animals are funny and get used to being treated in a certain way. He has likely accepted that this is the way he eats now.

Don't worry if he eats daily at all. One of my females woke up on Sunday. She slept without eating or pooping for 5 months and 14 days. Brutus is lucky if he poops every 2-3 weeks this time of year.

The bottom line is that if he's not hungry he won't eat. You need to let him get hungry. I still have a couple dragons down for the winter. Maybe he's just lethargic because this is the season for him to be so. Buy some superworms (petsmart sells them, you have to ask they are not refrigerated) and offer them when he hasn't eaten for a few days. Just keep him hydrated. Drop water on his nose and see if he licks it, if so, continue till he stops.

544 for a 21" dragon is good. I wouldn't worry at all until he loses more than 10%. I took in a 20"ish dragon 9/1/08 that was only 269. 4 1/2 months later he's almost 450.

If you want you can back channel me and I will give you my phone number. Just click on my handle in the posting.

Click on the photos tab, log in and upload your photos in the gallery. Then when you post here in the forums your photos will be in a box below the box you type your post in. Click on the one you want and it will be with the text.

The pic. below is Brutus. His spine is fused and always has that curve. He has no use of his back legs. He's a rescue I've had for 1 1/2 years, I have no idea how old he is and never thought he'd be with me anywhere near this long. He's a trooper and may outlive me. lol.

Evie Jan 23, 2009 10:56 AM

O.K. Thank you

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