Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here's the question!!

When a wholesale outfit or a private hobbyist cull there mice for sale/feeding I have noticed generally the adults mice/rats etc.. are mostly males(obviously the females are kept for production). I have always wondered what kind of hormonal and nutritional differences there could be in this type of feeding. In the wild I would guess there diet is highly varied. In captivity what could be the drawbacks of feeding female/male hognose mostly male mice???
Over the last 4 years I have not purchased many adult mice for this very reason. I feed mostly sub adults that have not been sexed and culled. I would say my results have been more than pleasing although I really don't have anything to draw a refrence from since have not maintained any type of control group being fed a normal high male diet.
What do you think???
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Justin Mitcham
ExtremeHogs.com

Justin, pretty interesting inquiry. What are the results you’re seeing anecdotally that you think might have to do with feeding mixed gendered sexually immature mice? And do you have a hunch about the possible affects that diets high in adult male mice might have on snakes, for instance, a difference in growth, specific health problems, or possible affects on hatchling gender rates?

I've wondered about the differences in calcium levels over the lifespan of mice. It would make sense that a jumbo retired breeder female mouse would be deficient in calcium in a way that a subadult probably wouldn't.

Adam

I believe that younger mice who are still growing probably have higher levels of growth hormones etc.. and are perhaps healthier and more nutritional over all.
One thing I constantly heard was that my adults will stop growing and burnout if I raised them fast and double clutched them constantly etc..
ALL of my adult females have gained 75-150g per year even with consecutive breedings and massive clutches. Some of my older females are approaching 600 grams strong!
I think it is a combination of diet, frenquency of feeding and higher temps that are contributing to these results.

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Justin Mitcham
ExtremeHogs.com

So would rat pups be more nutritional than adult/jumbo mice as they would be mixed sexes? They are also about the size of an adult/jumbo mouse.
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Louie Chavez

This is an interesting question. I am curious as to why you think younger mice are more nutritional overall? I would hypothesize that they had higher fat, less calcium, and less protein per gram compared to adults. However, this is just my armchair hypothesis.

We also do not know how mammalian hormones affect reptiles. I know that it has been shown in fish that estrogen can make males of some species more female-like. It would be interesting to investigate something similar in reptiles. It may already be worked on.

One other thing to keep in mind is that an individual must balance growth, reproduction, and repair. If food levels were kept the same, growth and repair would be decreased if more effort was placed into reproduction (double clutching).

I hope that more people get in on this thread, it is a very interesting idea.
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Kyle

15 Milks and Kings
3 Hognose
4 Kenyan SandBoas
3 Rat Snakes
2 Geckos

"I am curious as to why you think younger mice are more nutritional overall?"

Younger animals generally have better health overall. As far as higher nutrition and calcium levels I do not know. But It would seem the healthier the animal the more nutritious it is in general ...lol how can you get a healthy animal without good nutrition?
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Justin Mitcham
ExtremeHogs.com